# Sports and Homosexuality **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 3, 2001, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559 "2001-12-03T04:18:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/21 "2001-12-04T08:41:43Z")
While i don’t deny that homophobia is rampant in many male-culture activities such as professional sport, i think the reaction to a player outing himself might surprise a few people. In many ways (not all, i realise), sport is one of the few truly meritocratic institutions left; your performance on the field every week is still a key factor in your acceptance or rejection by owners, team-mates, and supporters. But i do think that the stage of the player’s career would be important. **Don’t ask** brought up the example of Australian rugby league player Ian Roberts, and as the post said Roberts was a very successful player by the time he came out to the general public. This no doubt contributed to the generally warm reception he got from players and fans. If a football player as successful and talented and established as, for example, Emmitt Smith or Brett Favre, suddenly announced that he was gay, i think the general reaction might be a lot more positive than if the person coming out was a little-known rookie. (Let’s face it, Green Bay wouldn’t be anywhere near the top of their division without Favre, and i reckon very few Packers fans, even homophobic ones, would like to see him go if he was gay). It is worth noting that in Roberts’ case his homosexuality was widely known in the Sydney gay community, and the press must certainly have been aware of it, but no-one really made anything of it until Roberts decided it was time to declare himself publicly. I knew a few guys who played on the same team as Roberts in the early 1990s, before he came out. These guys were, in general, quite homophobic and were happy making jokes about “fags” etc., but the guys i knew told me that they had no trouble at all with Roberts being on their team, and that his sexuality did not cause team hazing or abuse in the locker room. (Of course, i wasn’t on the team and only have their word for this). I was surprised that no-one on this thread brought up Dennis Rodman. I’m not a big basketball fan and know very little about him, but i do remember a friend telling me that Rodman has openly admitted to being bisexual. Is this true? And if so, what reaction did this get in the world of basketball? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/22 "2001-12-04T13:54:42Z")
was the first major-sport athlete to out himself, back in 1975. As this Seattle Post-Intelligencer story notes, he’d been retired for three years when: > [@](#): > > On Dec. 10, 1975, Kopay read the first installment of a newspaper series on gays in sports in the now-defunct Washington Star, a story based solely on anonymous sources. He decided insight was needed. Kopay brashly called Star reporter Lynn Rosellini…and agreed to discuss his homosexuality in print two days later, using his name. ---
**Author:** ![SoccerDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SoccerDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoccerDuck)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/23 "2001-12-04T19:51:51Z")
I play soccer for a women’s city league team. From my observations I play on the only non-lesbian team. Now we don’t divide the league up according to who is and who isn’t a lesbian but it just so happens that only one girl on my team is gay. I am not a lesbian, but I have no problem playing against another team who are mostly lesbian. My team and I have talked about the difference in sexuality among the teams and we’ve come the the conclusion that we stick together mainly because we are the minority, we are the only non-lesbian team (except for one woman on our team) I just wanted to give some of my own feedback on your post and I thank you for the information - SoccerDuck ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/24 "2001-12-04T20:25:04Z")
And what the hell is with all the “female golfer” stuff? Lots of female golfers must be lesbians, gay athletes BESIDES female golfers… Give me a break. Next someone will drag out the old “Babe Didricksen was really a man, otherwise she couldn’t be a multisport champion” crap. Oh well, I guess we are stuck with “all women athletes are dykes, all successful businesswomen are bitches” stereotype for a while longer. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/25 "2001-12-04T21:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > sport is one of the few truly meritocratic institutions left One of the few meritorcratic institutions LEFT? What institutions have stopped being truly meritocratic througout the years? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/26 "2001-12-05T01:48:31Z")
Don’t most sports reek of homosexuality anyway? A gay friend watching wresters practicing one time commented “wrestling is so homo-erotic.” Well said. After all, in sports men run around in tight clothes and touch each other a lot. There’s got to be some level of homosexuality in order for someone to have an initial desire to do that. If you watch basketball or football, the cheerleaders get astonishingly small glimpses of screen time (not worth watching, IMHO). To me, the only sports worth watching are gymnastics, cheerleading competitions, and figure skating --for obvious reasons. Why men sit in front of the TV religiously, glued to the images of other men is beyond my understanding. Leaves me in the heterosexual minority. FTR, I was a cheerleader/stuntman in college. Now, friends, THAT was a sport! (Fun, good exercise, and _ahem_ exciting). ---
**Author:** ![Dignan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@Dignan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dignan)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/27 "2001-12-05T01:50:24Z")
Here’s an old [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=72100) that has to do with this subject. by **booklover** > [@](#): > > I know there’s a lot of debate about who in the WNBA is gay… There was an article in _Sports Illustrated_ about coach’s that had more personal relationships with their players. Part of the article talked about Nancy Liebermann and her alleged relationship with one of the team’s players. It caused problems on the team when the player (that apparently wasn’t all that talented) was getting a bit more playing time than her teammates thought she deserved. The other players started suspecting something, Liebermann ended up getting fired, and I believe the player was also cut from the team. The article said that Lieberman is seperated from her husband, and I don’t remember if the coach and player are currently living together. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/28 "2001-12-05T02:18:07Z")
\*\*Dale The Bold wrote: Why men sit in front of the TV religiously, glued to the images of other men is beyond my understanding. Leaves me in the heterosexual minority.\*\* If you’ve ever wondered where all those Kinsey 1s, 2s and 3s are… there’s your answer. They can sit in front of the tube and dream of all those husky men, running around in tight costumes with padding, hitting each other on the butt and call it “a night with the boys” ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/29 "2001-12-05T02:19:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dale The Bold \* > **Why men sit in front of the TV religiously, glued to the images of other men is beyond my understanding. Leaves me in the heterosexual minority.** You do realize that not everything in the universe has to do with sex, don’t you? I watch sports, because I like to marvel at the athleticism, intensity, skill, etc, of the participants, not to stare at men in skimpy clothing. I go to public washrooms for that. Kidding. But why watch cheerleading, figure skating and gymnastics if you’re only in it for the poontang shots. Go buy a magazine. They actually show them naked in magazines. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/30 "2001-12-05T02:27:22Z")
What about that _very_ famous basketball player (I’n not gonna out the guy) who contracted AIDS? Why are so many fans ready to accept that he got it from a woman? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/31 "2001-12-05T02:28:16Z")
Don’t most sports reek of homosexuality anyway? A gay friend watching wresters practicing one time commented “wrestling is so homo-erotic.” Well said. After all, in sports men run around in tight clothes and touch each other a lot. There’s got to be some level of homosexuality in order for someone to have an initial desire to do that. If you watch basketball or football, the cheerleaders get astonishingly small glimpses of screen time (not worth watching, IMHO). To me, the only sports worth watching are gymnastics, cheerleading competitions, and figure skating --for obvious reasons. Why men sit in front of the TV religiously, glued to the images of other men is beyond my understanding. Leaves me in the heterosexual minority. FTR, I was a cheerleader/stuntman in college. Now, friends, THAT was a sport! (Fun, good exercise, and _ahem_ exciting). ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/32 "2001-12-05T02:40:46Z")
Wow. A double post 45 minutes apart. Has there been a glitch in the Matrix, or were you trying to reinforce your point? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/33 "2001-12-05T03:12:16Z")
\*\*mangeorge wrote: What about that very famous basketball player (I’n not gonna out the guy) who contracted AIDS? Why are so many fans ready to accept that he got it from a woman?\*\* _sigh_ Please tell me this was a joke post? Please, please, _ **PLEASE** _!?!?! **mangeorge** , the reason so many people believe this is because it’s **VERY** possible to be infected with HIV thru heterosexual (vaginal) intercourse. No, it’s not as likely as with anal intercourse, but it can happen, especially if one doesn’t use a condom. Apparently this famous star didn’t believe it could happen to him. Guess what, it did. In fact, in certain parts of the world, heterosexual (vaginal) intercourse is the main vector for spreading HIV. Please read up on the literature on how HIV is spread before you, too, become infected because (as you seem to think) it only happens to gay males. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_The\_Bold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/41988e/32.png) [@Dale\_The\_Bold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_The_Bold)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/34 "2001-12-05T03:28:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jack Batty \* > \*\*I watch sports, because I like to marvel at the athleticism, intensity, skill, etc, of the participants, not to stare at men in skimpy clothing. I go to public washrooms for that. Kidding. > > But why watch cheerleading, figure skating and gymnastics if you’re only in it for the poontang shots. Go buy a magazine. They actually show them naked in magazines. \*\* I watch cheerleading, figure skating, and gymnastics to marvel at the athleticism, intensity, and skill of the participants AND enjoy the view at the same time. I know first hand that cheerleading is not made for display of curves and asses, it requires a lot of skill and ability (the curves and asses are just a bonus). I don’t need to sit through a boring game (which is mostly fat old guys talking while people stand around on the field) and then get a magazine to satisfy the next need. With the way that people obsess over football in particular, it seems that many think about either football or sex most of the time. I figure it’s only a matter of time before they try a combination. Now, combining cheerleading and sex?..Excellent. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/35 "2001-12-05T03:42:48Z")
No, **Freyr** , it wasn’t intended as a joke. But I guess my post wasn’t well written. I’m very well read on the subject of AIDS, and know how it is spread. As a matter of fact, woman-to-man infection through vaginal sex is relatively uncommon. Most uncommon is woman-to woman. In the USA, anyway. Anyway, the thrust of my post was _supposed_ to be the unquestioning acceptance of many fans that a sports hero was infected by a woman, and not by recieving (far more likely, statiscally) anal sex from a man. Sorry for the confusion. I admire the guy, myself. Kinda. 😉 Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/36 "2001-12-05T04:11:14Z")
**Dale** , your major complaint seems to be that you don’t like sports. And appearantly there just aren’t enough references to sex in the world for you. I don’t understand in the least how you find a man watching an athletic event featuring men to be homoerotic. Not that it can’t be, but that would entirely depend on the veiwer - not the sporting event. Your original assertation was that “in sports men run around in tight clothes and touch each other a lot. There’s got to be some level of homosexuality in order for someone to have an initial desire to do that.” I respectfully say, bullshit to that, dear boy. You may categorize Warren Sapp knocking Kurt Warner into next week as “touching” but I don’t find anything particularly erotic about it. As for the clothes, allow me to quote Emilio Estevez – “It’s the required uniform.” So your arguement that sports reek of homosexuality is darn near stupid, but whatever turns your crank, I guess. In fact if you were correct about that, then more pro athletes would come out of the closet because they’d be coming out in an environment “reeking of homosexuality”. What could be safer? [Remember the OP?] ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/37 "2001-12-05T04:34:17Z")
I had always heard that Steve Young was gay. Then he went and got married – a sham if I ever saw one! Then he went and had a child – another sham, plain as day! He’s probably going to stay happily married for a long time and have a bunch of kids just to throw everyone off the scent. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/38 "2001-12-05T04:50:12Z")
**Snooooopy** , a good friend of mine is gay. He’s also a father of four, and a grandfather. He didn’t give up the pretences until he was in his 50’s. Being gay does not make a man sterile. Peace, mangeorge ---
**Author:** ![Snooooopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Snooooopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snooooopy)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/39 "2001-12-05T04:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\ ***Snooooopy** , a good friend of mine is gay. He’s also a father of four, and a grandfather. He didn’t give up the pretences until he was in his 50’s. > Being gay does not make a man sterile. > Peace, > mangeorge \*\* I don’t really think Steve Young is gay. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2001, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559/40 "2001-12-05T06:50:22Z")
Jack Batty wrote: > [@](#): > > You may categorize Warren Sapp knocking Kurt Warner into next week as “touching” but I don’t find anything particularly erotic about it. But the way the quarterback puts his hands between the center’s legs… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-and-homosexuality/96559.md?page=3)