# Sports injuries of yesteryear: usually career-ending? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 18, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477 "2007-12-18T18:35:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/1 "2007-12-18T18:35:38Z")
In modern pro sports (including sports that are theoretically not contact sports, like basketball and soccer) it’s pretty common for a player to tear an ACL or something and be out for a few months. I presume that such injuries were just as common 50 or 100 years ago, but I also suppose there was no surgical remedy back then. Were such injuries career-ending? If so, it seems like the attrition rate on any professional team would be pretty high; torn ligaments and the like are not uncommon. I’ve torn ligaments twice, in my recreational soccer play; both had to be surgically repaired. What’s the Straight Dope? ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/2 "2007-12-18T19:06:29Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I presume that such injuries were just as common 50 or 100 years ago, but I also suppose there was no surgical remedy back then. Were such injuries career-ending? [/QUOTE] Yes… two of the most prominent examples were Hall of Famers Gale Sayers and Red Grange. Sayers damaged both knees (in separate incidents) and as a result only played 4 full seasons in the NFL. Grange, the biggest college foootball star of his era (and arguably, of all-time) shredded his knee in his ninth NFL game. Grange refused to have surgery, hoping that rest would be the solution. He returned after taking the 1929 season off, but when he returned he was no longer an elite player. He spent his last five seasons playing defense and backing up Bronko Nagurski. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/3 "2007-12-18T19:18:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] I presume that such injuries were just as common 50 or 100 years ago, but I also suppose there was no surgical remedy back then. Were such injuries career-ending? [/QUOTE] You don’t even have to go back that far in time. In the 80s, top-level NFL RBs such as William Andrews and Billy Sims had their careers ended by knee-ligament tears. Had those injuries happened 15 years later, they’d have both been able to resume playing after about a year’s worth of rehab. For an example of a contemporary NFL player playing after an injury that would have ended his career 20 years ago … take Cardinals’ RB Edgerrin James as an example. Former Viking and Redskin RB Terry Allen played much of his career on two repaired knees in the late 1990s. And current Eagles Pro-Bowler Brian Westbrook is straight-up missing a posterior-cruciate ligament on one of his knees … yet he carries on with startling elusiveness. Not all modern guys come back at full strength, though – former Denver great Terrell Davis and former Falcon Jamal Anderson returned from their knee injuries, but were never the same. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/4 "2007-12-18T19:20:44Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] And current Eagles Pro-Bowler Brian Westbrook is straight-up missing a posterior-cruciate ligament on one of his knees … yet he carries on with startling elusiveness. [/QUOTE] You can actually play pro football without a PCL? I guess this was part of my question: if you ruptured a knee ligament, I don’t see how you could play at the professional level without having the ligament repaired or replaced. But you are saying it can be done. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/5 "2007-12-18T19:29:08Z")
Going way back, baseball players often had injuries that ended their careers. It was pretty common for a pitcher to have a “sore arm.” The term was vague, and encompassed minor issues that were healed by rest or major ones that ended a career. Dizzy Dean is one Hall of Famer whose arm injury ended his career prematurely; he actually broke a toe, but he came back too soon, changed his pitching motion, and hurt his arm. He still managed to pitch in the majors for several years afterwards, though. Herb Score changed his pitching motion after he was hit by a batted ball, turning him from one of the best pitchers in baseball into someone who could barely pitch in the majors. Chuck Estrada was a promising rookie pitcher for the Orioles before injuring his arm and finally dropping out of baseball. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2007, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/6 "2007-12-18T20:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=Sophistry and Illusion] You can actually play pro football without a PCL? I guess this was part of my question: if you ruptured a knee ligament, I don’t see how you could play at the professional level without having the ligament repaired or replaced. But you are saying it can be done. [/QUOTE] Looks like it’s hit or miss … but the PCL [seems to be a different animal from the other knee ligaments](http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/kneeinjuries/a/pcl.htm): > [@](#): > > Problems with instability in the weeks and months following PCL injury are not as common as instability following an ACL tear. > > … > > Treatment of PCL tears is controversial, and, unlike treatment of an ACL tear, there is little agreement as how best to proceed. Treatment of the pain and swelling with crutches, ice, and elevation is done early after the injury. Once these symptoms have settled, \*\*physical therapy is beneficial \*\* to improve overall knee function and **to maximize the other stabilizing structures of the knee**. > > Surgical reconstruction of the PCL is controversial. Because of the technical difficulty of the surgery, **some orthopedic surgeons do not see the benefit of PCL reconstruction**. Others, however, believe PCL reconstruction can lead to improved knee stability and lower the likelihood of problems down the road. > > Surgical PCL reconstruction is difficult in part because of the position of the PCL in the knee. Trying to place a new PCL graft in this position is difficult, and over the years these grafts are notorious for stretching out and becoming less functional. **Generally, surgical PCL reconstruction is reserved for patients who have injured several major knee ligaments, or for those who cannot do their activities because of persistent knee instability**. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/7 "2007-12-19T00:07:30Z")
A couple of great examples of careers that would have been extended with today’s surgical techniques are Joe Namath and Bobby Orr. In their time the knees could be repaired surgically but the intrusiveness of the surgery was so great that healing and recovery were very difficult. A lot of guys who were in their prime in the those days have scars a foot long where the surgery was done. Today, with arthroscopy the scar is almost tiny, the recovery is much faster and the results are much better. ---
**Author:** ![Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b3f665/32.png) [@Sophistry\_and\_Illusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sophistry_and_Illusion)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/8 "2007-12-19T01:31:12Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] Looks like it’s hit or miss … but the PCL [seems to be a different animal from the other knee ligaments](http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/kneeinjuries/a/pcl.htm): [/QUOTE] Presumably, though, a professional athlete sans ACL would have to retire. And I think ACL tears are much more frequent than PCL tears. I seriously don’t see how any professional team 50 years ago could make it through the season without losing 1 or 2 starters to injuries that today would be treatable. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/9 "2007-12-19T05:42:53Z")
I would also think that the development of NSAIDs allows players to play with a lot more pain than they used to put up with. Physical therapy is a lot better now. Ultimately, the biggest difference now is in diagnosis. Doctors can spot a lot more things wrong with athletes so career-ending injuries can sometimes be headed off. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/10 "2007-12-19T17:15:33Z")
Sometimes (like Red Grange, noted above) they just dealt with it the best they could. Stan Musial was a promising minor-league pitcher when he injured his shoulder. Unable to pitch anymore, he moved to the outfield. Even as an outfielder he had what was considered a “weak” arm and spent about 1/3 of his major leagfue career playing first base. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2007, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sports-injuries-of-yesteryear-usually-career-ending/430477/11 "2007-12-20T16:08:06Z")
[http://www.athomeplate.com/tommyjohn.shtml](http://www.athomeplate.com/tommyjohn.shtml) This is the big one. About 30 years ago this was tried to save a players career. It now is pretty common and is even used on kids.