# Sportsmen that "thank God" for their victory. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784 "2007-04-12T12:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/1 "2007-04-12T12:10:21Z")
Please cut it out. Yes, that means you, [Zach Johnson](http://www.bpsports.net/bpsports.asp?ID=5559) (who?). Even if God existed, do you really think he’d give a shit about you hitting a little white ball around some trees in Georgia? I’m sure he’d have better things to think about – especially on the anniversary of his son’s death, you heartless bastard. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/2 "2007-04-12T12:13:35Z")
Oh, please shut the fuck up. Faith in God gave ZJ presence of mind. Peace on the course. The belief that he had prepared properly for the event. God is just as responsible for the victory as ZJ’s swing coach or shoe manufacturer or equipment sponsor. You don’t have to like it. That’s why God, in His infinite wisdom, gave you arms and legs, so you could get your ass off the couch and go do something else. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/3 "2007-04-12T12:20:10Z")
Besides, what do you think ZJ was looking for? A bolt of lightning to hit Tiger? Do you think the power of prayer caused Tiger to go into the drink? “Being Easter, my goal was the glorify God and hopefully I did that today,” said the Cedar Rapids, Iowa, native." What’s wrong with that? We athletes who are Christian believe that we DO glorify God through our competition. My training, my competition, and my victories serve as an example to others that we can tap the potential God gave us. My faith in God gives me the peace to train when conditions aren’t right, or after a loss, or when my head otherwise just isn’t in it. Why? Because I think God will smite my opponents? Hell no. God doesn’t love me any more than He loves you or any of His other children. He doesn’t favor me over my opponents. It is my belief that God is less concerned with the outcome of the event as He is with the fact that the event itself is an opportunity to glorify Him through our work. God gave me the ability to compete- to be good at a certain thing. By training hard at it, by working to be the best at it, it is an example to others that they also have talents in one facet of their lives or another and that they can actualize their potential as well. I consider it sinful to pray for victory. I know some Christians don’t go that far, but the main point of any athletic event is to glorify God, not smite the guy in the other-colored shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/4 "2007-04-12T12:20:24Z")
Sorry, but that is very lame. I have nothing against people having faith, but spouting off about it at every given opportunity is obnoxious, not to mention arrogant. “I won because God is on MY SIDE!” ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/5 "2007-04-12T12:23:52Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] Oh, please shut the fuck up. Faith in God gave ZJ presence of mind. Peace on the course. The belief that he had prepared properly for the event. God is just as responsible for the victory as ZJ’s swing coach or shoe manufacturer or equipment sponsor. You don’t have to like it. That’s why God, in His infinite wisdom, gave you arms and legs, so you could get your ass off the couch and go do something else. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Zach Johnson] Being Easter Sunday, I feel very blessed and honored and I feel like there was a power that was walking with me and guiding me. So that’s where things stand. You know, I feel very blessed and honored to be here. [/QUOTE] You shut the fuck up. Any God that gives two shits about what goes on in a sport dominated by multi-millionaires, all the while allowing millions of his beloved children to starve to death each year, is a punk and a fraud. Anyone who believes that God takes a special interest in his golf game is an arrogant idiot. What about the other golfers. No one else is a Christian? Why wasn’t Jesus guiding them? What about people who profess profound faith and find nothing but failure? If success is a measure of faith what does that say about them? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/6 "2007-04-12T12:28:38Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] I consider it sinful to pray for victory. I know some Christians don’t go that far, but the main point of any athletic event is to glorify God, not smite the guy in the other-colored shirt. [/QUOTE] Wow. If you’re being sarcastic, that’s hilarious. If you’re serious, that’s just silly. -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Boo\_Boo\_Foo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boo_Boo_Foo)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/7 "2007-04-12T12:36:25Z")
Robin Williams, on Golf… (best read in a Scottish accent) > [@](#): > > "Here’s my idea for a fucking sport… I knock a ball into a gopher hole… > > _Oh you mean like pool?_ > > Fuck off pool! Not with a straight stick, but with a wee little fucked up stick. I whack the ball it until it goes in a gopher hole… > > _Oh like croquet?_ > > No, not fucking croquet you great pelic! I put the hole hundreds of yards away. Oh yeah whack the ball and it goes in the little fucking hole… > > _Oh like a bowling thing?_ > > Fuck no! Not straight, I put shit in the way! Like trees and bushes and high grass so you can lose your fucking ball and go whackin’ away with a fucking tire iron. Whackin away and each time you miss you feel like you’re going to have a stroke. Fuck! That’s what we’ll call it! A stroke, cause every time you miss you feel like you’re going to fucking die. Oh great and here’s the best part, oh fucking great, oh fuck this is brilliant! Right near the end I’ll put a little flat piece with a little tiny flag to give you fucking hope! But then I’ll put a pool and a sandbox to fuck with your ball again! And then you’re there thrashing away, jerking away at the sand!.. > > _And you do this one time?_ > > FUCK NO! 18 Fucking times!” After reading that, I kinda doubt that God rates golf all that highly… ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/8 "2007-04-12T12:38:00Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Sorry, but that is very lame. I have nothing against people having faith, but spouting off about it at every given opportunity is obnoxious, not to mention arrogant. [/QUOTE] What the fuck does it matter to you if someone thinks enough of God’s presence in their life to give thanks? It doesn’t materially affect you, and the guy is free to do it if he wants. If one believes they have God-given talent and potential, their freedom to give thanks to God for it trumps your freedom to not be annoyed by people expressing their religious views. [QUOTE=Colophon] “I won because God is on MY SIDE!” [/QUOTE] I don’t think ZJ said that. Try another strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/9 "2007-04-12T12:41:09Z")
[QUOTE=Colophon] Sorry, but that is very lame. I have nothing against people having faith, but spouting off about it at every given opportunity is obnoxious, not to mention arrogant. “I won because God is on MY SIDE!” [/QUOTE] Zach Johnson did not say that. He said he won because Jesus gave him strength. Two golfers can work with Butch Harmon. One might win the Masters, the other place 23rd. When the one that wins says “I really want to thank Butch Harmon, my coach, who really helped me this year” they aren’t saying “and Butch completely slighted that guy who came in 23rd.” Pro golfers are overwhelmingly Christian and overwhelmingly conservative. I try to watch them play (which I appreciate) rather than listening them talk - since their worldview is often very skewed from mine. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/10 "2007-04-12T12:47:20Z")
[QUOTE=THespos] If one believes they have God-given talent and potential, their freedom to give thanks to God for it trumps your freedom to not be annoyed by people expressing their religious views. [/QUOTE] Actually, there is no trumping at all. He is of course free to thank Jesus for his victory, and others are free to call him an arrogant idiot for doing so. > [@](#): > > I don’t think ZJ said that. Try another strawman. In making his victory speech, he credited the power of Jesus, who walked beside him and guided him to victory. Since there is only one winner, Jesus did not guide anyone else to victory. Jesus caused him to win, and everyone else to lose. Pretty much sounds like Zach was his boy. [QUOTE=Dangerosa] Two golfers can work with Butch Harmon. One might win the Masters, the other place 23rd. When the one that wins says “I really want to thank Butch Harmon, my coach, who really helped me this year” they aren’t saying “and Butch completely slighted that guy who came in 23rd.” [/QUOTE] If Harmon walked alongside the golfer, and gave him power and guidance, the golfer would be disqualified, and Harmon would likely lose his PGA privileges. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/11 "2007-04-12T12:48:21Z")
I once saw a commedian comment on this. He said that he found it stupid that the winning teams always credit god for their win. You never hear the losers say, “Well, I would have made the touchdown, but Jesus made me fumble!” ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/12 "2007-04-12T12:49:39Z")
Of course God doesn’t care about sports. He cares about the sex of the person you put your penis into, and which words come out your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/13 "2007-04-12T12:51:00Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] Of course God doesn’t care about sports. He cares about the sex of the person you put your penis into, and which words come out your mouth. [/QUOTE] But does he care about the mouth you put your penis into? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/14 "2007-04-12T12:51:58Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] It is my belief that God is less concerned with the outcome of the event as He is with the fact that the event itself is an opportunity to glorify Him through our work. [/QUOTE] Or your play, I guess. More seriously…maybe I’ve never understood this…doesn’t that sound a little…meaning no disrespect…narcississtic? I mean, Donald Trump looks for opportunities to be glorified by his underlings. Does God _need_ the praise heaped upon Him? Wouldn’t His ego be pretty secure? And why golf? Wouldn’t you think God Himself has some real achievements under His belt? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/15 "2007-04-12T13:04:52Z")
[QUOTE= Sailboat] More seriously…maybe I’ve never understood this…doesn’t that sound a little…meaning no disrespect…narcississtic? [/QUOTE] Well, I don’t think so, because it’s not really about me, it’s about God. If I win, the glory is God’s. It’s my opinion that the level of success I have achieved is due in some part to my faith- that I don’t want to waste the gifts God gave me in the sport that I love. [QUOTE= Sailboat] I mean, Donald Trump looks for opportunities to be glorified by his underlings. Does God need the praise heaped upon him? Wouldn’t His ego be pretty secure? And why golf? Wouldn’t you think God Himself has some real achievements under His belt? [/QUOTE] Sure, I don’t think God NEEDS me to glorify Him. But that’s not the point, is it? I do it because I believe in God and I want to thank Him for giving me the ability to compete and the presence of mind to use my ability to win. And I think that, and I mean no disrespect here, but that a lot of people who don’t understand this idea think it’s odd because their lack of faith in God means that they don’t understand love FOR God. I don’t glorify Him because Jesus told me to. I don’t worship God and give Him burnt offerings because otherwise He’ll take my abilities away from me. I don’t want Him to smite the other team. I do it because it’s my way of thanking Him for His presence in my life, a life that has allowed me to play a SPORT. Secondly, I think a lot of people, and particularly **Contrapuntal** , in their zeal to argue, are falling prey to the idea that, “If Jesus helped one competitor, He must have harmed the others.” They lose sight of the fact that God isn’t favoring me over His other children. Jesus gives all of us strength. Jesus watches over all of us. But you know what they say, even if you pray to God to win the lottery, YOU Still have to go buy the ticket. Jesus may have given ZJ the strength and compusure to play. But ZJ still had to play. [QUOTE= Merijeek] If you’re being sarcastic, that’s hilarious. If you’re serious, that’s just silly. [/QUOTE] And just what do you find silly about it? My statement might be a bit hyperbolic, but what, exactly, do you find silly about the sentiment? EDITED TO ADD: The Butch Harmon metaphor that **Contrapuntal** dodged was quite apt. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/16 "2007-04-12T13:24:06Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] … Jesus, who walked beside him and guided him to victory. … [/QUOTE] I thought his caddy looked familiar. Me, I want Moses, makes the water hazards and sand traps a lot easier to deal with! CMC fnord! YouTube - Robin Williams - Golf ([Full Version](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X04wZpqx3U)) ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/17 "2007-04-12T13:32:43Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] Secondly, I think a lot of people, and particularly **Contrapuntal** , in their zeal to argue, are falling prey to the idea that, “If Jesus helped one competitor, He must have harmed the others.” [/QUOTE] There can only be one winner of a golf tournament. If Jesus gave Zach the \*power \*and \*guidance \*he needed to win, while walking alongside him (a point you seem to be dodging) then, ergo, he did \*not \*give anyone else the power and guidance \*he \*needed to win. > [@](#): > > EDITED TO ADD: The Butch Harmon metaphor that **Contrapuntal** dodged was quite apt. Including the part about Johnson being DQ’d? ---
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/18 "2007-04-12T13:35:38Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Actually, there is no trumping at all. He is of course free to thank Jesus for his victory, and others are free to call him an arrogant idiot for doing so. [/QUOTE] And those of us who don’t mind it so much are free to say they think the OP’s taking offense is a bit over the top. [QUOTE=Contrapuntal] In making his victory speech, he credited the power of Jesus, who walked beside him and guided him to victory. Since there is only one winner, Jesus did not guide anyone else to victory. Jesus caused him to win, and everyone else to lose. Pretty much sounds like Zach was his boy. [/QUOTE] Except that most Christians believe that God is omnipotent and omnipresent, and therefore multiple people can seek God’s guidance simultaneously. So it does not logically follow that ZJ believes Jesus caused everybody else to lose. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/19 "2007-04-12T13:52:45Z")
I was watching the end of the Masters with my brother and his wife. We all disdainfully groaned and complained about Johnson’s comment, Aussie sports stars don’t do that schtick. Later some one hit a putt that appeared to be going in the hole and just rolled over it. My sister in law jumped up and pointed at the TV, “Look, look there’s the Lord’s finger, goal tending.” A few months ago when my God-botherer boss was moving to another job he called us together to let us know. At the time Israel was bombing the crap out of Lebanon. He was asked why he had accepted this new job and he replied that, “God gave me a sign.” I said, “Considering all the troubles in the Middle East, I’m surprised that God has nothing better to do than to be your careers advisor.” From the look I got and the subsequent crap I had to deal with I can only hope his God is more forgiving than he is. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/20 "2007-04-12T14:04:39Z")
[QUOTE=THespos] And those of us who don’t mind it so much are free to say they think the OP’s taking offense is a bit over the top. [/QUOTE] No argument here. You claimed, however, that certain rights to expression trumped other rights to expression. _“If one believes they have God-given talent and potential, their freedom to give thanks to God for it trumps your freedom to not be annoyed by people expressing their religious views.”_ Can you explain that? That is what I was responding to. > [@](#): > > Except that most Christians believe that God is omnipotent and omnipresent, and therefore multiple people can seek God’s guidance simultaneously. So it does not logically follow that ZJ believes Jesus caused everybody else to lose. As has been noted,\* there can only be one winner.\* We are not talking about \*seeking \*God’s guidance, we are talking about a man who claims that Jesus provided him with \*guidance \*and _power_, and as a result, he won a golf tournament. Maybe they all sought God’s guidance, but only one got what he needed to secure the victory. Causing one man to win \*necessarily \*causes the others to lose. There is no way around it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784.md?page=2)