# Sportsmen that "thank God" for their victory. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784 "2007-04-12T12:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/61 "2007-04-12T18:19:05Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] That’s not necessarily true. He could have given them the same power and guidance, but they failed to capitalize on it. If my parents give me and my brother each enough money to buy a house, and I buy a house, but my brother spends the money on drugs and hookers, then my brother’s lack of a house is not evidence that our parents gave me more than they gave him. [/QUOTE] Everyone there was trying to win. No one squandered their shots aiming at birds, or the treetops, or the cart paths. It’s not really a fair analogy. Why in the world would someone believe that Jesus was enabling them and guiding them, and then take another path? The only thing you can do with guidance on a golf course is play golf. ASAIK, it cannot be traded in for blow jobs. (If I find out that it can, I will be front pew dead center come Sunday.) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/62 "2007-04-12T18:26:36Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Everyone there was trying to win. No one squandered their shots aiming at birds, or the treetops, or the cart paths. It’s not really a fair analogy. Why in the world would someone believe that Jesus was enabling them and guiding them, and then take another path? The only thing you can do with guidance on a golf course is play golf. ASAIK, it cannot be traded in for blow jobs. (If I find out that it can, I will be front pew dead center come Sunday.) 🙂 [/QUOTE] :rolleyes: Okay, if you want to take the analogy that literally… Our parents give me and my brother the same amount of money to buy houses. My brother pokes around online a little bit, finds a place he can afford, and buys it, but it’s not that nice a place. I spend months of research, checking market trends, and searching for bargains, and end up buying a much nicer, larger house in a better neighborhood. Our parents gave each of us the same resources, but I made better use of them, and came out ahead of my brother. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/63 "2007-04-12T18:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Our parents give me and my brother the same amount of money to buy houses. . . . Our parents gave each of us the same resources, but I made better use of them, and came out ahead of my brother. [/QUOTE] How come Jesus hates your brother, **Miller**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/64 "2007-04-12T18:33:06Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] :rolleyes: Okay, if you want to take the analogy that literally… Our parents give me and my brother the same amount of money to buy houses. My brother pokes around online a little bit, finds a place he can afford, and buys it, but it’s not that nice a place. I spend months of research, checking market trends, and searching for bargains, and end up buying a much nicer, larger house in a better neighborhood. Our parents gave each of us the same resources, but I made better use of them, and came out ahead of my brother. [/QUOTE] Establish that Jesus helped each golfer equally and maybe you will have something. You are the first one to do so, and it hardly seems obvious to me. As I said, everyone was trying their best to win. Is such shallow research your brother’s best effort? Did your parents know he was unable to make such complicated decisions? Maybe he needed more help than you did. Is that how God works, give everyone the same bankroll and let the chips fall where they may? It is an unusual theology. Probably not unprecedented. I’ve just never heard it. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/65 "2007-04-12T18:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I thought Johnson sounded pompous and self-important too. It did sound like he thought Jesus wanted him to win. What does it even mean to say that Jesus gave him “strength?” Strength for what? How much strength does it take to walk around on a country club and hit a ball with a stick? That’s not exactly an ordeal. To suggest that Jesus would give him mental strength for that is to suggest that Jesus gives a shit who wins the Masters. I can understand someone saying they leaned on faith to get through a double tour in Iraq, but if you say you needed it to get through a stroll on a lawn? Go fuck yourself. [/QUOTE] Golfers fall apart down the stretch all the time, blow leads, lose their stroke. I’m not a golfer, but I think there is a little more to the game than walking on grass. Just guessing here. Maybe they need “strength” to keep from blowing up under pressure, not for walking on the lawn. Is it as much strength as is needed to get through 2 tours in Iraq? I doubt it. Doesn’t mean the mental aspect of the game isn’t tough (yeah, yeah, war is tougher. Write to your congressman and demand golf tournaments be halted until the troups are home or something). ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/66 "2007-04-12T18:36:55Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] :rolleyes: Okay, if you want to take the analogy that literally… Our parents give me and my brother the same amount of money to buy houses. My brother pokes around online a little bit, finds a place he can afford, and buys it, but it’s not that nice a place. I spend months of research, checking market trends, and searching for bargains, and end up buying a much nicer, larger house in a better neighborhood. Our parents gave each of us the same resources, but I made better use of them, and came out ahead of my brother. [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t your parents be embarassed and upset if you then trumpeted this success over your brother in a press conference? Sailboat ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/67 "2007-04-12T18:37:24Z")
[QUOTE=Nametag] Not really; you might be able to hack your way out of a water hazard instead of taking a drop, but you’d be stuck in a sand trap for 40 years! [/QUOTE] I’m only taking him on links and parkland courses, for the desert courses it’s Muhammad all the way! CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/68 "2007-04-12T18:39:08Z")
Eh, Christians say all kinds of retarded stuff. This is pretty much no more nor less retarded than any of their other proclaimations. FWIW, it does imply that Jesus or God played favorites. Furthermore, the idea that the contributions of Jesus or God to one’s ability to golf are similar to that of a golf coach should be laughable on its face. Apparently, some people are too thick or think so little of the abilities of the God they proclaim belief in to recognize this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/69 "2007-04-12T18:44:19Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Golfers fall apart down the stretch all the time, blow leads, lose their stroke. I’m not a golfer, but I think there is a little more to the game than walking on grass. Just guessing here. Maybe they need “strength” to keep from blowing up under pressure, not for walking on the lawn. Is it as much strength as is needed to get through 2 tours in Iraq? I doubt it. Doesn’t mean the mental aspect of the game isn’t tough (yeah, yeah, war is tougher. Write to your congressman and demand golf tournaments be halted until the troups are home or something). [/QUOTE] This still assumes that God gives a shit about whether a golfer blows up under pressure. The suggestion that God gives them mental strength during a round of golf is an _ipso facto_ implication that God cares who wins. It’s absoultely no different than if I were to claim that God gave me strength to beat someone else at _Madden_ on PS2. It’s insanely grandiose. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/70 "2007-04-12T18:59:09Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This still assumes that God gives a shit about whether a golfer blows up under pressure. The suggestion that God gives them mental strength during a round of golf is an _ipso facto_ implication that God cares who wins. It’s absoultely no different than if I were to claim that God gave me strength to beat someone else at _Madden_ on PS2. It’s insanely grandiose. [/QUOTE] We’re going around in circles, since I’ve already stated that God (or Jesus or a rabbit’s foot) could be prayed to/asked for strength/used as a good luck charm by all the players and all might get it in the same amount, but that in its self doesn’t guarantee victory. The guy in 33rd place might have prayed for strength and moved up from 43rd for all we know. And he might have went on to thank God/Jesus/rabbit’s foot he made it into 33rd. The guy who finished dead last might have been praying up a storm, gotten as much out of it as anybody else and finished a few strokes lower than he might have without praying. I don’t see how thanking God/Jesus/rabbit’s foot implies that you are alone in having your prayers answered, what about 33rd guy and last guy? And again, all hypothetical, I’m not religious/superstitious. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/71 "2007-04-12T19:21:03Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Establish that Jesus helped each golfer equally and maybe you will have something. You are the first one to do so, and it hardly seems obvious to me. [/quote] Obviously, that’s not something that’s possible to establish, chiefly because there’s no longer any such person as Jesus. > [@](#): > > As I said, everyone was trying their best to win. Is such shallow research your brother’s best effort? Did your parents know he was unable to make such complicated decisions? Maybe he needed more help than you did. Is that how God works, give everyone the same bankroll and let the chips fall where they may? It is an unusual theology. Probably not unprecedented. I’ve just never heard it. I don’t believe it’s all that unusual at all. I’m pretty sure its a fairly standard interpretation of faith among Christians. Any actual Christians are welcome to tell me I’m way off base, here, but having listened to what many Christians actually say about their faith (as opposed to what I _want_ them to say) it seems like a reasonably accurate description. Of course, it’s possible that this guy really does think that God activly intervened to prevent the other golfers on the tour from winning the game. But I don’t see anything in his statements that allows only that interpretation. > [@Sailboat](#): > > Wouldn’t your parents be embarassed and upset if you then trumpeted this success over your brother in a press conference? I think they’d expect me to thank them for setting me up with the money to buy it. I’m sure they’d be less pleased if I added, “Ha ha, bro, you suck at buying houses,” but I don’t see any sort of equivalent statement from this golfer guy. Perhaps you can point me to something I’ve missed? > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > This still assumes that God gives a shit about whether a golfer blows up under pressure. The suggestion that God gives them mental strength during a round of golf is an ipso facto implication that God cares who wins. It’s absoultely no different than if I were to claim that God gave me strength to beat someone else at Madden on PS2. It’s insanely grandiose. Isn’t it implicit in the idea of an omniscient, omnibenevolent God that he care about _everything_? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/72 "2007-04-12T19:37:57Z")
People have the right to thank anyone they want when they win something. Just like I have the right to think they’re wankers when they do. ---
**Author:** ![anamnesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@anamnesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anamnesis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/73 "2007-04-12T20:19:55Z")
I think the more important question to ask (and building upon Guinastasia’s mention of the bit by George Carlin from many years ago, although she didn’t know who said it ;)) is this: does Zach Johnson also give thanks to the Almighty when he loses? OTOH, being the victor, he can thank anything he wants. The fact that you feel you need to chew him out about it because he chose to thank God makes you a moron. As John Mace suggested, go find something worth being offended about. Great, you’re an athiest. Obviously his faith has brought him success in his pursuits, and if it really pisses you off so much, then go beat him and you can thank yourself instead. Until then, I’d suggest another outlet for your recreational outrage. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/74 "2007-04-12T20:24:45Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Comedian Jeff Stilson has a bit about players should blame God when they lose as well- “we were gonna win the game- until Jesus made me fumble” [/QUOTE] [What am I, chopped liver?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=8457122&postcount=11) ---
**Author:** ![anamnesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@anamnesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anamnesis)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/75 "2007-04-12T20:43:30Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] What am I, chopped liver? [/QUOTE] Well Guin, you weren’t chopped liver in my post just above yours. I gave you credit … sorta. You didn’t actually know whose joke it was, y’know. 😛 If any other comedian (i.e. Stilson) is using that line, they stole it from Carlin. This happens quite a lot, actually. Seems a lot of the material that new comics love to use was popularized decades ago by Carlin, the master of lampooning religion. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/76 "2007-04-12T20:50:18Z")
Thanking God is one of those things that makes you sound modest and humble, until you stop and think about it. When you think about it, you perceive the implication that God granted the speaker something not granted to others, and “humility” becomes arrogance. Most people don’t stop and think about it, which is why athletes will keep doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/77 "2007-04-12T20:58:23Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] Isn’t it implicit in the idea of an omniscient, omnibenevolent God that he care about _everything_? [/QUOTE] Apparently not - he only cares if you pray to him to win. Well, pray harder than your competitors are praying. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/78 "2007-04-12T20:59:18Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I don’t believe it’s all that unusual at all. I’m pretty sure its a fairly standard interpretation of faith among Christians. Any actual Christians are welcome to tell me I’m way off base, here, but having listened to what many Christians actually say about their faith (as opposed to what I _want_ them to say) it seems like a reasonably accurate description. [/QUOTE] Okay. Then, as a rising tide lifts all boats, all golfers start with equal support from Jesus. We have simply raised the baseline, and the winner is determined by effort and ability alone. Jesus is not a factor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/79 "2007-04-12T20:59:40Z")
> [@Contra](#): > > No, John, he didn’t. But it is a necessary conclusion from what he did say. [QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I thought Johnson sounded pompous and self-important too. It did sound like he thought Jesus wanted him to win. What does it even mean to say that Jesus gave him “strength?” Strength for what? How much strength does it take to walk around on a country club and hit a ball with a stick? That’s not exactly an ordeal. To suggest that Jesus would give him mental strength for that is to suggest that Jesus gives a shit who wins the Masters. I can understand someone saying they leaned on faith to get through a double tour in Iraq, but if you say you needed it to get through a stroll on a lawn? Go fuck yourself. [/QUOTE] Applying logic to religion is like applying paint to a window. Religious beliefs are, but definition, not logical. And I’m sure he meant mental strength, because it does take lots of that to win a golf tournament. So the guy said some overtly religious things. BFD. What I think is disgusting is the way some people are reacting as if it mattered. Every religious belief is irrational, so you might as well pit every religious person in the world. As long as he’s not being a dick about it by trying to aggressively convert you or something, then it’s **you** (the collective “you”) who have the problem, not him. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/80 "2007-04-12T20:59:46Z")
Wow. Some of this discussion has gotten to the point that it can and will go nowhere. I’d just like to say that these athletes do annoy me. I mean if God is really that important to you, surely you’d be of the opinion that he would be able to hear your thanks without the benefit of a mic and public broadcast system. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784.md?page=5)