# Sportsmen that "thank God" for their victory. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 12, 2007, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784 "2007-04-12T12:10:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ea5d25/32.png) [@Happy\_Scrappy\_Hero\_Pup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/101 "2007-04-12T22:53:26Z")
**Contrapuntal,** that is the second time you have misattributed quotes I’ve made. I’d ask you nicely not to do it again. Besides which, you know full well I’m responding to implications that Jesus PHYSICALLY INTERVENED. Thanking Jesus is what people do when their faith helps carry them through something. As it is, I’m past the point where I believe it to be worthwhile engaging you. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/102 "2007-04-12T22:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Yes, I have. But eventually I stop myself when I realize what I’m doing. [/QUOTE] Fair enough. > [@](#): > > The main purpose. If you’re not mainly shitting on someone, you shouldn’t be opening a Pit thread. Note that the OP is specifically calling for sportsman to stop invoking religion. I’m not the OP. My purpose here is to enlighten. 🙂 > [@](#): > > I didn’t say shitting on people was always a bad thing. Sometimes people deserve to be shat upon-- when they do something to hurt other people. Who is being hurt in any way by what ZJ did? This is no different than Pitting a gay couple for kissing in public. Because you might personally find what Zach did bothersome, that’s your problem. If religion were not such a powerful force in our society, I might agree with you. And I do take your point[About the gay couple]. An expression of religion is the same as an expression of affection. I just don’t agree. > [@](#): > > As I said earlier, if he was aggressively trying to convert people, or if he literally said Jesus loved him more than the other players, then he’d deserve to to be Pitted. But all he said was that he personally finds strength in Jesus. Well, good for him… and I say that as an atheist. You and \*\*Miller \*\*are tied at the top of My Favorite Posters (with a few others.) I have tremendous respect for your reasoning abilities. Both of you, whether you remember or not, have been instrumental in causing me to re-think and eventually abandon positions I have held strongly. In light of that, I will retire to think on this some more. Thanks to both of you for your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/103 "2007-04-12T23:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] So far I have been told that A) People who have more faith or pray harder get success B) God gives support to everyone equally, and C) God doesn’t really give support at all. Kind of hard to figure out exactly what the ideas are that constitute faith. [/quote] If anyone is claiming that they know exactly what ZJ meant, please point that out. Rather, you are the one claiming that you know with some precision what ZJ meant, and the implications therein, and people are proposing various possible alternatives. > [@](#): > > I do think that people who believe that God helped them win golf tournaments are arrogant. I think I have stated my case. I have no problem with public expressions of faith. Giving God credit for the win is a bit more than that. Perhaps that is our sticking point. How is it arrogant? If anything, it’s kind of humble. It’s only arrogant if viewed exactly the way you choose to view it, as “God loved me Best and helped me win over everyone else! I’m special111!!!1”, as opposed to “I believe that God gives me strength in all that I do”. > [@](#): > > As I have noted, losers don’t thank God. First round leaders don’t thank God. Only winners do. How do you know that ZJ didn’t thank God for just helping him get there the first time he played professionally on the PGA? Generally, the people we see being interviewed are the winners, not the losers. And if you’re someone who has genuine faith, but lost anyhow, (a) that doesn’t prove your faith is phony, and (b) what is there to say? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/104 "2007-04-12T23:20:18Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You and \*\*Miller \*\*are tied at the top of My Favorite Posters (with a few others.) I have tremendous respect for your reasoning abilities. Both of you, whether you remember or not, have been instrumental in causing me to re-think and eventually abandon positions I have held strongly. In light of that, I will retire to think on this some more. Thanks to both of you for your thoughts. [/QUOTE] Now, why did you have to spoil this fun be being all reasonable and shit? 😉 \*\*Miller \*\*is on my “favorites” list, too, even when I don’t agree with him on a given issue. I do remember engaging in the same debates with you, but I seem to remember that we’re usually on the same side. Maybe my memory is faulty. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/105 "2007-04-12T23:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] **Contrapuntal,** that is the second time you have misattributed quotes I’ve made. I’d ask you nicely not to do it again. Besides which, you know full well I’m responding to implications that Jesus PHYSICALLY INTERVENED. Thanking Jesus is what people do when their faith helps carry them through something. As it is, I’m past the point where I believe it to be worthwhile engaging you. [/QUOTE] Unretiring just to add this. Misattributed quotes you have made? What does this mean exactly? That I claimed you said something you didn’t? Or I claimed you didn’t say something you did? Or I somehow attributed what you said to someone else, or vice versa? What was the first time? And the second? I seriously don’t know. It is the kind of behavior I find troublesome in others, and will sincerely apologize for if I am guilty of it. If Jesus caused Johnson to think, or behave, or relax, or become calm, then the intervention was physical. Thoughts, and physiological responses, are physical _by definition._ ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/106 "2007-04-12T23:28:11Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I do remember engaging in the same debates with you, but I seem to remember that we’re usually on the same side. Maybe my memory is faulty. [/QUOTE] Not really a debate. You made me think about the “Is it necessary to teach evolution in grade school” topic. I had not realized how central it was to understanding even basic biology. **Max** , as I said, I am abandoning the field to think about this some more. I will gladly respond via e-mail, or PM, but I try to keep my promises. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2007, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/107 "2007-04-12T23:35:11Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Scrappy Hero Pup] Please, PLEASE stop ascribing it to INTERVENTION. Jesus didn’t intervene in the game. [/quote] Then what, is he thanking himself for his superior faith in Jesus? > [@](#): > > I hate to say it, but I’m done here. I cannot think of more willful ignorance and self-righteous bigotry than I’m seeing here. And I’ve seen anti-abortion rallies. This beats those. Oh noes, a poor maligned Christian! Jesus, the slightest challenge or questioning of their dumb-ass statements, and its the height of bigotry. I’d like to think Jesus would give his followers some bigger stones to go along with their sporting prowess. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/108 "2007-04-13T00:06:07Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Except by, you know, _responding_ to it. Instead of pseudo non-responses like yours. I think I make a perfectly good point. If his god **is** helping him, it’s cheating. If his god is not, he’s deluded. And either way, as others have said, he’s arrogant. [/QUOTE] Oh, pardon me. I didn’t realize you were serious. “In other news, Zack Johnson was banned from competing in any PGA events after failing his God test. Johnson was found to be under the influence of The Holy Spirit, a violation of PGA substance abuse policies. When asked for comment, Johnson replied, “Well I’ll be Goddamned””. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/109 "2007-04-13T00:12:05Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Oh, pardon me. I didn’t realize you were serious. “In other news, Zack Johnson was banned from competing in any PGA events after failing his God test. Johnson was found to be under the influence of The Holy Spirit, a violation of PGA substance abuse policies. When asked for comment, Johnson replied, “Well I’ll be Goddamned””. [/QUOTE] That doesn’t happen because there **is** no God, or he doesn’t intervene. The implication of thanking God for his help is that he **does** exist and **does** intervene. As I said, people who make such statements are effectively **claiming** to have cheated, with God’s help. They haven’t actually cheated, because there’s no God to do any such thing, but if there was, being helped by him would be cheating. ---
**Author:** ![anamnesis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb8c5e/32.png) [@anamnesis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anamnesis)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/110 "2007-04-13T00:14:28Z")
The religious intolerance displayed in this thread by people who attack someone of faith strikes me as particularly amusing. The idea that anyone could be so offended by a man attributing his success to his faith says a lot about them. I suppose if the athiests who actually get offended by this sort of trivial nonsense had any faith of their own (besides questioning the faith of others), then perhaps they wouldn’t be so bitter about something so completely unimportant. If the petty arguments you’re having in this thread – which are now resorting to whether or not divine intervention smiles upon those who they essentially condemn as false prophets – are any indication, then it’s clear that your grasp of religion is probably not suitable to understanding why certain people don’t find anything wrong with letting it be known that their faith centers and guides them, as **Hero Pup** has been trying to say. This thread will lead nowhere, as any thread about athiests needing to approve of how faith should or shouldn’t be applied is wont to do. He’s wronged you in a major way, I know, and his injustice is obviously nothing compared to your intolerance for his faith. Really, you ought to find something actually worth being upset about. Better still, find something to be happy about. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/111 "2007-04-13T00:25:23Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] That doesn’t happen because there **is** no God, or he doesn’t intervene. The implication of thanking God for his help is that he **does** exist and **does** intervene. As I said, people who make such statements are effectively **claiming** to have cheated, with God’s help. They haven’t actually cheated, because there’s no God to do any such thing, but if there was, being helped by him would be cheating. [/QUOTE] Well, they CAN ban rabbit’s feet. If somebody proclaims that their lucky rabbit’s foot was the reason they won, then using a rabbit’s foot would, by your reckoning, be cheating. Now show me where PGA rules disallow rabbit’s feet. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/112 "2007-04-13T00:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] Well, they CAN ban rabbit’s feet. If somebody proclaims that their lucky rabbit’s foot was the reason they won, then using a rabbit’s foot would, by your reckoning, be cheating. [/QUOTE] Only if rabbit’s feet actually worked. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/113 "2007-04-13T00:37:00Z")
[QUOTE=anamnesis] The religious intolerance displayed in this thread by people who attack someone of faith strikes me as particularly amusing. The idea that anyone could be so offended by a man attributing his success to his faith says a lot about them. I suppose if the athiests who actually get offended by this sort of trivial nonsense had any faith of their own (besides questioning the faith of others), then perhaps they wouldn’t be so bitter about something so completely unimportant. If the petty arguments you’re having in this thread – which are now resorting to whether or not divine intervention smiles upon those who they essentially condemn as false prophets – are any indication, then it’s clear that your grasp of religion is probably not suitable to understanding why certain people don’t find anything wrong with letting it be known that their faith centers and guides them, as **Hero Pup** has been trying to say. This thread will lead nowhere, as any thread about athiests needing to approve of how faith should or shouldn’t be applied is wont to do. He’s wronged you in a major way, I know, and his injustice is obviously nothing compared to your intolerance for his faith. Really, you ought to find something actually worth being upset about. Better still, find something to be happy about. [/QUOTE] I wasn’t offended. I thought he made himself look silly and self-important but I wasn’t offended. I’m not bitter. I really don’t care. I was making an observation. He can be a pompous, holier-than-thou tool if he wants to. No skin off my nose. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/114 "2007-04-13T00:41:22Z")
I kinda think it’s funny. The whole thing. I mean, Jesus didn’t help you win your sporting event. Whatever it is, he had nothing to do with it. It was your skill, your training and your desire to win. Now, if you “believe” he did, and wish wif all your widdle heart to tell all those nasty heathens out there that your L&S helped you win your sporting event, music award etc., then that’s your right. It’s also our right to point out how silly we think you sound. If there is a god in the Christian model (or any model really) I hope wif all MY widdle heart that he/she/it is working dilligently on correcting little things like genocide, pandemic diseases, starvation and the like, AND NOT HELPING SOME BABBLING FUCKASS WIN SOME FUCKING GOLF GAME. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/115 "2007-04-13T00:49:45Z")
[QUOTE=Der Trihs] Only if rabbit’s feet actually worked. [/QUOTE] The guy claimed it did, he claimed to have cheated by your take on the matter. You’d think a claim of cheating would be cause for action. Well, it’s not. Claiming God helped you cheat, whether or not you received any benefit from the claim, should be just as dire a situation. It’s not. So Johnson claimed he cheated, right there on TV. So what if he didn’t get any actual help, Jesus didn’t give him a foot wedge out of the rough, he claimed he cheated. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/116 "2007-04-13T01:02:01Z")
[QUOTE=Duke of Rat] The guy claimed it did, he claimed to have cheated by your take on the matter. You’d think a claim of cheating would be cause for action. Well, it’s not. Claiming God helped you cheat, whether or not you received any benefit from the claim, should be just as dire a situation. It’s not. So Johnson claimed he cheated, right there on TV. So what if he didn’t get any actual help, Jesus didn’t give him a foot wedge out of the rough, he claimed he cheated. Right? [/QUOTE] Right. Except that despite being such a religious country, we often act on the unspoken assumption that God is either nonexistant or irrelevant. He **did** claim to be cheating; nothing will be done, because acting on his words would imply that God actually _does_ act on the world. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/117 "2007-04-13T02:24:34Z")
If you bastards don’t stop saying nice things about me, I’m going to get _really_ pissed off. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/118 "2007-04-13T02:47:15Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] If you bastards don’t stop saying nice things about me, I’m going to get _really_ pissed off. [/QUOTE] Well… Yours was always my favorite of _The Canterbury Tales_. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/119 "2007-04-13T04:35:14Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I once saw a commedian comment on this. He said that he found it stupid that the winning teams always credit god for their win. You never hear the losers say, “Well, I would have made the touchdown, but Jesus made me fumble!” [/QUOTE] I’ve always wanted to see one of those crucifix-wearing, cross-myself-three-times-before-batting, point-at-the-sky-after-homering baseball players come up to the plate, get struck out on three pitches - and then have the pitcher dramatically point **downwards**. The ensuing brawl would be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f07891/32.png) [@Little\_Plastic\_Ninja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Plastic_Ninja)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2007, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784/120 "2007-04-13T05:19:06Z")
Twice on this page I’ve been reduced to laughter that’s going to wake the rest of the house… 😃 I wonder if this perspective might help or might cast doubt on the whole thing. Imagine you started playing golf with your dad when you were a kid. You thought this whole clubs and ball and shiny green park was kind of fun, and you were surprisingly good at it. Dad said, “Keep on with it, sport.” And you did. You played golf in high school, even, but after you started as a freshman the jocks made fun of you and said that golf was a sissy sport. You wanted to give up. Dad said, “You enjoy the game, right? Don’t let it bother you what everyone else thinks.” You graduate high school. You start playing golf full-time. Your dad is proud, but before you can get to your first tournament, he passes away. You grieve and you consider just not going to the tournament at all, but you know Dad would have wanted you to. So you go. You’re out on the final hole. To get that last ball in you’re going to have to concentrate, center yourself, but you’re so nervous. The nervousness reminds you of being mocked by the jocks. It reminds you of golfing with your dad and wanting to show him how much better you are than last time. You close your eyes and remember his hands over yours when he was teaching you how to grip the club. This hand here. That hand there. Not so tight, now. Easy. Don’t be scared, son. It’s just a swing like any other one. You know you can do it. You swing and it is perfect. I don’t believe that God controls our actions. I think He might lean on fate this way or that, but I doubt He does more than that. We all have our free will and our natural abilities. It is believed by many that we all have our place in this world and that to be the best we can be in our place, whether it’s farmer or scientist or president, is what God has designed for us. We have to do it ourselves, though. Nobody else can do it for you, not even God. My job involves talking to a lot of people who have a strongly developed sense of entitlement. They want something now, they don’t care if I can’t give it to them. They feel entitled to use me as a punching bag, to lie to me to get five bucks worth of credit on their accounts, to wheedle just one more chance when they’ve already used up all their credit, all their trust. Every day I want to yell at these people. Every day I feel myself getting angry at them. How can they be so irresponsible, so stupid? How can they be so inhuman? Why do I even have to talk to them? Every day I want to start telling them what I think of them. Every day I want to take out my frustration on the people around me. I want to start cussin’ right back at the guy who calls me all manner of names. But I stop myself and I calm myself and I ask myself: is this proper behavior? Christ can see all you do. Would he be proud of you getting this angry? Would he agree that you should take your frustration out on your coworkers or your customers? What is the model of life you should be living? And somehow, that makes it easier to take a deep breath and treat people better. Maybe I treat them better than they deserve, but I never heard where that was a bad thing. It isn’t Jesus making me be nice, but my faith helps me. I won’t go so far as some and say that faith is necessary to calm your temper and remind yourself about what’s important in life, but I’ll say if it is a crutch it’s a damn useful one. Again, I haven’t heard precisely what he’s said. More to the point, I’ve heard some people say “Oh, he just thanked Jesus for being with him” and I’ve heard others indicate that he placed the credit for victory at Jesus’s feet. That one seems a little shifty to me, and I’ll certainly agree that saying “Jesus loved me so I won!” is idiotic. But for the little hypothesis above, would you consider it wrong to say “I want to thank X, Y, Z, and my father who walked with me on that last hole. Dad, this one’s for you.” Would you lambast him for ancestor-worship? Or is it Christianity and its past relative to Western culture that bothers you so much? If I thank Jesus – well, if I thank Jesus I do it quietly and in my heart rather than saying it on a streetcorner or on national TV. But if I thank Jesus I’m not saying that He lifted his hand and removed the scales from mine eyes. I’m saying that faith has helped me in my life. But to say “I thank my faith and inner strength, without which I would be as dust” is really, really, really arrogant. 😃 I also submit that if he just trusted to Jesus he wouldn’t practice or buy good clubs or keep his eyes open while swinging at the ball… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sportsmen-that-thank-god-for-their-victory/399784.md?page=7)