# Spousal permission required for sterilization **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [January 25, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118 "2017-01-25T04:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/41 "2017-01-26T03:21:09Z")
> [@bobkitty](#): > > there’s a several-month cooling off period before the surgery Illinois Public Aid requires a 6-week waiting period between requesting sterilization, and undergoing it. I found out about it when I heard about a woman who did not seek prenatal care until shortly before term, and wanted it done while she was still in the hospital. Unfortunately, the doctor did indeed have to wait until the baby was about a month old before she could have it done. IMNSHO, it’s to prevent unethical things like sterilization without consent. Insurance almost always does pay for it; the only places I’ve personally heard of that didn’t were insurances carried by strict Catholic companies, whether hospitals, the local diocese, etc. I’ve received a lot of conflicting information about the ACA and what those policies may or may not pay for. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/42 "2017-01-26T03:23:49Z")
> [@RivkahChaya](#): > > My mother had her tubes tied right after my brother was born-- that is, immediately after. Within minutes. It was very common in the 1970s for a woman to have a second child, and have her tubes tied while still in the hospital; she signed the consent form when she was signing all the other consent forms for the emergency c-section, etc. > > However, from about 1968-78, the Zero Population Growth movement was very strong, and it was considered normal, and a little noble to want exactly two children. No doctor ever questioned it. > > Moving into the 80s, we started to get the barest bud of the Christian movement that would elect Reagan and eventually become the crazy “quiverful” types we now have, and I’m not even sure if the Zero Pop Growth movement even still exists. > > My point is, you may get more liberal stories from the 70s than you get from the 80s and 90s. Nowadays, it’s not uncommon for women to have a TL concurrently with a c-section. I do remember that lots of doctors have been hesitant to do that, unless there are overwhelming reasons why she should not have another baby, and wait until the next day regardless of how the baby is birthed, in case it has something wrong with it. ☹ I’m very aware that some things may not show up for years, but the most serious things will probably be evident right away. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/43 "2017-01-26T14:19:15Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Illinois Public Aid requires a 6-week waiting period between requesting sterilization, and undergoing it. I found out about it when I heard about a woman who did not seek prenatal care until shortly before term, and wanted it done while she was still in the hospital. Unfortunately, the doctor did indeed have to wait until the baby was about a month old before she could have it done. IMNSHO, it’s to prevent unethical things like sterilization without consent. I think it’s to prevent rash decision making in the throes of labor pain. Which I can kind of see, except it sometimes leads to absurdities. Mine was an emergency C-section, and due to some Stuff, I was told (before the surgery) that I shouldn’t have another baby after this one for risk to my life, but if I did, it had to be another C-section, assuming I survived until delivery. Which is a total dealbreaker for me. I asked them to do a tubal ligation, “while you’re in there,” but that was an absolute nonstarter. Because I might have been making that decision out of fear, apparently, and not the rational choice based on the risk to my life the doctor had just finished telling me about. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/44 "2017-01-26T14:57:32Z")
When I got my vasectomy years ago, the female doctor (and her female assistant) asked my wife if she understood that it meant I could no longer have children. So there I was, in a room with two women actively rerouting my plumbing and they were concerned that my \*wife \*understood what was happening. If I hadn’t been so nervous about what was going on I would’ve been pretty pissed. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/45 "2017-01-26T17:00:33Z")
Just remember, what you were feeling right then - people of the opposite gender reworking your plumbing and getting very concerned/discussing your plumbing - is what women all too often put up with their entire lives. Which is why some of them get so worked up about reproductive rights, women’s rights, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/46 "2017-01-26T17:55:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > On a related note, I wish on some level that general anesthesia was involved. There was a good deal of tugging and pulling, and smoke arising from my nether parts when he cauterized the tubes. The smell of burning flesh coming from your balls does not make for happy memories. I was fine being awake for my vasectomy but I think the doctor would have preferred that I was knocked out. I talked to him and asked questions during the whole thing. After a few minutes he told me to stop talking. I figured it was best not to bother him any further while he was holding a scalpel, so I shut up. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/47 "2017-01-26T18:12:12Z")
A couple of differences between men and women in this regard. [ul] [li]The procedure is more likely to be reversible for men.[/li][li]Women are possibly more likely to change their minds (based on hormonal changes driving a nurturing instinct).[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/48 "2017-01-26T19:15:16Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > A couple of differences between men and women in this regard. > > [ul] > [li]The procedure is more likely to be reversible for men.[/li][li]Women are possibly more likely to change their minds (based on hormonal changes driving a nurturing instinct).[/li][/ul] Unless you have a cite for this second one, I call BS. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/49 "2017-01-26T19:46:24Z")
Well I don’t know if it’s true, which is why I wrote “possibly”. The main thing is whether people - a category that includes doctors - think it’s true, and a lot of people think it is. So this might be a reason for doctors to be more cautious about offering sterilization to women unless they have a higher level of confidence about it. As to whether it’s true, again, I don’t know but a lot of people think it is, and that many women suddenly feel their biological time clocks ticking and start feeling maternal instincts that they hadn’t previously felt, or hadn’t felt to nearly the same extent. See e.g.: [Is your biological clock ticking?](http://www.womenshealthandfitness.com.au/health-beauty/health-advice/427-is-your-biological-clock-ticking) > [@](#): > > According to psychologist Jo Lukins, from Peak Performance Psychology, the term ‘biological clock’ is often used to refer to “the increased maternal instincts of (particularly) women as they get older”. She says this occurs while the “perceived and actual ‘window’ of opportunity to become pregnant reduces”. In other words: the older you get, the cluckier you become, and yet the lower your chances are of getting pregnant. > > And while men can ‘feel’ the clock ticking too, she says they generally don’t have the same urgency attached to this feeling, as there is no defined upper age at which a man can father a child. However, Lukins is quick to note: “There is debate as to whether the ticking biological clock in relation to reproduction is a real physical and automatic psychological response, or a conscious wish for children and a socialised experience.” See also: [GA GA FOR GOO GOO: RESEARCH EXPLORES THE SCIENTIFIC BASIS FOR BABY FEVER](http://www.k-state.edu/media/newsreleases/aug11/babyfever82311.html) ---
**Author:** ![Emergency911](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/43a26b/32.png) [@Emergency911](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emergency911)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/50 "2017-01-26T20:08:29Z")
> [@Macca26](#): > > I’m just wondering…does the office ever actually check up on the statements of whether you’ve had children or not? For women, lying about that and not being found out on the operating table would be more difficult (would the doctor stop at that point though?), but men have no body changes after birth. Can a man walk in without any children, but blithely say to the doctor’s face, “Oh yeah I have two at home and can’t deal with any more” and be allowed a freer pass through the rigamarole? I can only speak for myself, but I had plenty of physical changes after child birth! (I am male). The first change I noticed was the bags under my eyes from sleepless nights. :eek: Once the wee one was old enough to walk and talk, my hair started falling out. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/51 "2017-01-26T20:28:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Well I don’t know if it’s true, which is why I wrote “possibly”. The main thing is whether people - a category that includes doctors - think it’s true, and a lot of people think it is. So this might be a reason for doctors to be more cautious about offering sterilization to women unless they have a higher level of confidence about it. > > As to whether it’s true, again, I don’t know but a lot of people think it is, and that many women suddenly feel their biological time clocks ticking and start feeling maternal instincts that they hadn’t previously felt, or hadn’t felt to nearly the same extent. Thing is though, most of those women who start hearing the clock ticking didn’t actually change their minds. They weren’t so strongly opposed to the idea of having children that they wanted their tubes tied. They either weren’t sure whether they wanted children at all, or they always knew that ideally they wanted children at some point (when they had a better job, after they had traveled enough, when they found the right man) and the clock ticking is them realizing they are running out of time. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/52 "2017-01-26T20:32:00Z")
True. But that applies to “most of those women”, as you say. In these lawsuit-happy days, doctors can’t rely on “most of those women”. ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/53 "2017-01-26T20:32:14Z")
I guess I must be deaf. Never heard that ticking. Actually I believe that many more women would choose to skip child-bearing if not for so much societal pressure. Someone mentioned Zero Population Growth earlier. If only this idea had caught on, the world would be so much better a place. Too bad we can’t reverse the pressure to NOT bringing more people into an overpopulated world. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/54 "2017-01-26T21:02:50Z")
That’s all irrelevant to a doctor considering surgery. Makes no difference to him if the risk is a women changing her mind due to biology/hormones or whether it’s due to societal pressure. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/55 "2017-01-26T22:07:38Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > and the clock ticking is them realizing they are running out of time. my ex went through something similar, but from the opposite direction. she’d always known she didnt want children, but when she started being peri-menopausal, the looming deadline after which she could no longer change her mind, made her freak out a little. now i’m not a woman, so i cant know exactly what she was going through, but watching her behavior, and talking with her about her feelings made me realize just how little our own rational decisions mean when pitted against our biology. that being said, at a certain point we have to give women (and men) the responsibilty for making decisions about themselves. potential regret is not a good reason to deny people the ability to make their own decisions. mc ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/56 "2017-01-26T22:16:11Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > A couple of differences between men and women in this regard. > > [ul] > [li]The procedure is more likely to be reversible for men.[/li][li]Women are possibly more likely to change their minds (based on hormonal changes driving a nurturing instinct).[/li][/ul] Actually, a tubal ligation is easier to reverse because the tubes and their lumen are larger. ---
**Author:** ![eclectic\_wench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ac91a4/32.png) [@eclectic\_wench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eclectic_wench)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/57 "2017-01-26T23:26:33Z")
The problem with the ‘biological clock ticking’ theory is that it’s always presented as yet another manifestation of women being irrational semi-human creatures in thrall to hormone-driven hysteria, who hit 35 and suddenly get BABY FEVER!!! where they MUST MAKE A BABY RIGHT NOW!!! I have a whole bunch of female friends who’ve hit 35 and 40 without having kids, either because they didn’t want them or because it didn’t happen for some reason, and none of them were like that. Not one. But almost every single one of them - including many of the ones who didn’t want kids - had a moment when she realised ‘Oh, shit. If I’m ever going to do this, it has to be now. The decision is about to be taken out of my hands. That’s a lot of pressure and it’s scary and weird.’ This isn’t hormone-driven hysteria. This is the rational reaction to realising that a major life decision is about to be taken out of your hands; one of your biggest choices in life is about to vanish for good. Unless you’re 100% certain about what you want, you’re going to take a step back and put a bit of serious thought into it. My friends who didn’t want kids didn’t change their minds (or they haven’t so far), but they mostly needed that bit of serious thought to confirm that, yep, they really were sure. ---
**Author:** ![Essured](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/278dde/32.png) [@Essured](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Essured)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/58 "2017-01-26T23:31:24Z")
I got sterilised at the age of 24 (no kids). The doctor did ask if my husband was aware that I was planning to be sterilised, but that was in the ‘just chatting’ part of the consult when he was obviously trying to see if I was reasonably sane. Other than the usual medical forms, there was an extra form stating that I understood it was permanent and irreversible surgery. Only I needed to sign that, not my husband Mind you, this was in Australia, not the US ---
**Author:** ![bobkitty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@bobkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobkitty)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/59 "2017-01-26T23:38:11Z")
> [@mikecurtis](#): > > _blink, blink, blink :eek:_ It was one of those ‘comedy of errors’ things- small office, their admin called in sick, which meant the nurse was doing double duty. Nurse got pulled out of the room mid-operation to do… something, I don’t recall what, leaving the doc on his own. I was in the room and had previous medical experience, so I scrubbed in to help. The only bad part was it turned out my former husband only had one vas deferens, and it took a while for the doc to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2017, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118/60 "2017-01-27T00:00:03Z")
[QUOTE=bobkitty;19953663 The only bad part was . . . [/QUOTE] i should think seeing inside you partner from that angle; or having your partner see inside you from that angle, arent really good parts either! mc [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spousal-permission-required-for-sterilization/778118.md?page=4)