# Spouses of Judges **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 15, 2022, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119 "2022-03-15T16:20:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/181 "2022-03-30T18:09:00Z")
“Treated as a potential indictee” for what purposes? If the Supreme Court were ruling on an evidentiary question in a case against someone closely connected to Joe Biden, and Jill Biden were on the Supreme Court, I would say she should recuse herself. I would say that even if Joe Biden had NO obvious connection to or involvement with the potentially criminal activity. Would you disagree? Yes, you’re right, I have no proof of anything and am speculating based on associations, but the speculation is IMO reasonable. It _appears_ reasonably possible that Justice Thomas MIGHT have acted _improperly._ That’s the only standard that needs to be met for recusal to be ethically necessary. Neither Thomas is on trial here, we don’t need to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt before we can expect them to do the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/182 "2022-03-30T18:28:31Z")
I think it is worth noting again that in order to make any kind of analogy here, you have to basically posit another reality entirely. I’m not a big Joe Biden guy, but if you’re going to start your scenario “what if Jill/Hunter Biden…” then you have to also include a really fucking long footnote about how in this hypothetical, that person’s full-time job for the last decade has been to participate in genuinely deranged conspiracy fantasies, which are also the major driving force for the dominant wing in the Democratic party. Ginni Thomas’ _whole thing_ is that she participates in “activism” circles where everyone is absolutely insane. You can’t just wave that away and compare it to some other vague alleged “impropriety.” The idea that Clarence Thomas did or didn’t know about “the texts” is hilarious in a context in which his wife quite obviously was talking 4Chan Q Anon nonsense all the time. She wasn’t going to tennis matches and hair appointments every other day of her life, except the one morning when she sent a bunch of texts to the Chief of Staff of the President of the United States saying she hoped Joe Biden and friends were on their way to Gitmo. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/183 "2022-03-30T18:29:42Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > The idea that Clarence Thomas did or didn’t know about “the texts” is hilarious in a context in which his wife quite obviously was talking 4Chan Q Anon nonsense all the time. Right, he may not have known specifics, but only because he knew enough that he knew he didn’t want to know more. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/184 "2022-03-30T18:40:56Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > circles where everyone is absolutely insane Insanity is relative, and I don’t think a person who believes Trump won the 2020 election is “insane”. > **[More than 40% in US do not believe Biden legitimately won election – poll](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/05/america-biden-election-2020-poll-victory)** > > Axios-Momentive poll also finds majority of Americans fear repeat of Capitol attack in next few years ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/185 "2022-03-30T18:42:32Z")
Yes, that belief is the basis for my thesis in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/186 "2022-03-30T18:43:24Z")
Then we have found the root of our disagreement. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/187 "2022-03-30T18:44:20Z")
At this point, you must deny all objective reality to insist that Trump won. All of the court cases, all of the audits. Nothing, nothing at all has shown any fraud on the Democratic side that could have overturned one district, let alone the entire election. The fact that 40% in the US have decided that reality doesn’t matter is not a comforting stat. Propaganda works. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/188 "2022-03-30T18:45:51Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > The fact that 40% in the US have decided that reality doesn’t matter is not a comforting stat. No, it’s not comforting. But I’m not willing to wave away 40% of the U.S. population as insane. Not gonna happen. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/189 "2022-03-30T18:48:13Z")
Ok, how about lost to rationality. Unreachable? Delusional? Are any of those options better? How else do we describe people that don’t live in the same universe as the rest of us? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/190 "2022-03-30T18:49:20Z")
No to all. They do live in the same universe, in fact the same country. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/191 "2022-03-30T18:51:14Z")
Well if we ever have to live in world run by them, you may feel differently. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/192 "2022-03-30T18:52:08Z")
We just emerged from the Presidency of Donald Trump, so I doubt it. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/193 "2022-03-30T18:58:04Z")
I don’t know that “insanity” is a useful term. You could conceptualize it as a sort of shared delusion, I guess. But most of those 40% presumably have jobs, or at least are capable of living independently without staff on site to assist them with eating and wiping their asses. This demonstrates that, in most areas of life, they have relatively intact cognitive abilities and the ability to distinguish fantasy from reality. For whatever reason, they are either incapable of or choose not to apply these abilities to this particular sphere. I think “victims of propaganda” is probably the most appropriate term. But I still feel justified in judging them negatively; you can tell a lot about a person by the lies they choose to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/194 "2022-03-30T19:07:23Z")
Well that wasn’t a “world run by them”, it would have been had the coup worked. We wouldn’t have had a next election, not really. Remember all the talk of the deep state getting in Trump’s way. Losing the House etc. The plot that almost succeeded would have solved all of those issues by tossing out that pesky constitution and the quaint idea of the peaceful transfer of power. That would be the world run by them. Clearly you don’t seem too concerned by that, and that’s your right. It terrifies me though. The idea of falling into another dark age is terrible distressing to me and I feel like we aren’t too far from that at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/195 "2022-03-30T19:11:04Z")
I’m probably tangenting at this point, so we can drop it. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/196 "2022-03-30T19:16:11Z")
@Max_S, you continue to ignore the very specific language in the code that C. Thomas _has an affirmative duty_ to determine if his wife’s activities may pose a conflict. > [@Aspenglow](#): > > (c) _A judge should inform himself_ about his personal and fiduciary financial interests, _and make a reasonable effort to inform himself about the personal financial interests of his spouse_ and minor children residing in his household. So continuing to claim, “What if he didn’t know?” is a misguided refutation. He was required to ask his wife. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/197 "2022-03-30T19:20:56Z")
Wouldn’t say that. I don’t even think we have a disagreement, per se, other than like about whether the objective nature of reality can be divined by grinding increasingly fine statutory interpretations. For what it’s worth, I said Ginni Thomas ran in circles where everyone was insane. You were the one who defined those circles as “everyone who thinks Trump won.” As if running around the country raising money and lobbying about “Transsexual fascists” and complaining in private forums to legal elites about how the election was stolen by revolutionary extremists and texting _the Chief of Staff_ about how the guy who won the election was going to _Guantanamo Bay_ is exactly the same thing as sitting at the Elks on a Thursday night drinking Bud Light and saying “Let’s Go Brandon” with your hunting buddies. They’re different things. Just because both categories of people are so wrong someone might describe them as insane doesn’t mean that’s what happened. It sort of highlights the absurdity of this kind of formalist debate when every single thing even moderately orbiting the subject is so thoroughly unreasonable. It’s Plato’s Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/198 "2022-03-30T19:21:39Z")
But the justice system, in dealing with the Trumpist conspiracy to overthrow democracy, absolutely should hold firm that honest belief that Trump won shouldn’t be a defense against criminal charges, because no reasonable person could honestly hold that belief. The fact that a lot of people aren’t reasonable doesn’t change that, and doesn’t turn “prosecuting criminals” into “criminalizing political disagreement”. ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/199 "2022-03-30T19:28:31Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > (c) _A judge should inform himself_ about his personal and fiduciary **financial** interests, _and make a reasonable effort to inform himself about the personal **financial** interests of his spouse_ and minor children residing in his household. The quoted section refers to financial interests. As such it is irrelevant. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2022, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119/200 "2022-03-30T19:37:41Z")
I’ve never seen that code interpreted by either lawyers or judges to read exclusively that way. Ever. But maybe your extensive legal experience can point to why they should. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spouses-of-judges/961119.md?page=11)