Spreadsheets and AI

In My Humble Opinion
81

I don’t know how you reach that conclusion. That said, I think we’re talking past one another at this point. If you’re still thinking that this list

Doctors. Dentists. Veterinarians. Nurses. Attorneys. Judges. Creative content producers of any sort. Therapists. Many academics (some do). Scientists (manage data yes but not with these sorts of spreadsheets.)

represents people who don’t use spreadsheets to do their job and that I’m likelier to be overestimating than you are underestimating the use of spreadsheets, despite those links and the many more websites that show otherwise, I think I’ve made the best case I’m interested in making.

82

You really think a Reddit thread specifically for data scientists where someone is defending against the grief they get for occasionally using Excel makes some point? That sales pitches trying to get people to take their classes, are good data for your argument? Any data at all?

I think you’ve made the best case that can be made! :slightly_smiling_face:

Any response to which of those steps you feel is outside of even current AI capabilities?

83

Sure! You’re asking the wrong question.

Spreadsheets, uh, excel at constantly-updated analyses. I use one to track my kids’ allowance: whenever we need to figure out what they’re owed, we can cut-and-paste previous rows into the spreadsheet to update it with date and amount, and it tracks how much they’ve received so far. A separate set of columns tracks expenditures: when they want to get cash from us, or get us to order something online, we add a row with the date, the amount, and any note. Fields at the top of the spreadsheet update with a running total of how much they still are owed. It’s messy,l because I don’t need something tidy.

Of course I could ask an AI each time what the running total is. But by putting in formulas, I don’t need to repeat the question every time.

And that’s true in a lot of places. By setting up the spreadsheet correctly, I can see the answer to my question every time I update the spreadsheet, instead of having to ask the question each time.

I could ask the AI to set up the formulas for me, of course; but if I’m doing that, it’s very helpful to know the principles of creating formulas, so I ask the right question.

They obviously are, and your representation of these cites is not accurate.

84

Where it already is:

One of the most significant advancements is the use of AI to interpret natural language commands. This allows users to interact with spreadsheets using plain English, transforming complex formulas into user-friendly queries. For instance, modern tools can now take a command like “Show me sales growth over the past year” and automatically generate the appropriate graphs and summaries.

Automation is another pivotal trend. The latest AI spreadsheet tools can automate repetitive tasks, from data entry to complex calculations, thereby reducing human error and freeing up valuable time for more strategic activities. Platforms such as Excel with its Agent Mode and Copilot have set the benchmark by executing multi-step processes autonomously. These systems can fetch, clean, transform, analyze data, and even detect anomalies, acting as full-fledged virtual assistants.

Now.

The challenge is getting it trustworthy enough. That may take a few years. And until it is trusted it isn’t actually speeding things up. But five? Probably. Ten? Almost definitely.

85

You are serious here? Wow.

FWIW many of us managed our kids’s allowances without databases or AI just fine.

86

I know

87

Being completely unscientific about this, I copied and pasted the data from this BLS site into a, er, spreadsheet, removed all the headers and… by the extremely accurate and not-to-be-disputed method of pulling the answer out of my ass… put a Y/N by each occupation as to whether, in my supreme judgement, the people in this occupation would be likely to use a spreadsheet in a given month:

Yes/No # of people likely to use a spreadsheet in a given month (in thousands)
N 99609
Y 63884
Grand Total 163493

If you care for the details, here they are:

Occupation # of people (in thousands) Likely to use a spreadsheet in a given month
Chief executives 1,802 Y
General and operations managers 1,379 Y
Legislators 18 Y
Advertising and promotions managers 61 Y
Marketing managers 669 Y
Sales managers 563 Y
Public relations and fundraising managers 141 Y
Administrative services managers 113 Y
Facilities managers 128 Y
Computer and information systems managers 646 Y
Financial managers 1,431 Y
Compensation and benefits managers 16 Y
Human resources managers 314 Y
Training and development managers 68 Y
Industrial production managers 345 Y
Purchasing managers 222 Y
Transportation, storage, and distribution managers 415 Y
Farmers, ranchers, and other agricultural managers 810 Y
Construction managers 1,199 Y
Education and childcare administrators 1,052 Y
Architectural and engineering managers 197 Y
Food service managers 1,159 Y
Funeral home managers 10 Y
Entertainment and recreation managers 65 Y
Lodging managers 117 Y
Medical and health services managers 905 Y
Natural sciences managers 44 Y
Postmasters and mail superintendents 42 Y
Property, real estate, and community association managers 790 Y
Social and community service managers 471 Y
Emergency management directors 27 Y
Personal service managers, all other 184 Y
Managers, all other 5,471 Y
Agents and business managers of artists, performers, and athletes 60 Y
Buyers and purchasing agents, farm products 10 Y
Wholesale and retail buyers, except farm products 179 Y
Purchasing agents, except wholesale, retail, and farm products 296 Y
Claims adjusters, appraisers, examiners, and investigators 389 Y
Compliance officers 312 Y
Cost estimators 146 Y
Human resources workers 897 Y
Compensation, benefits, and job analysis specialists 61 Y
Training and development specialists 210 Y
Logisticians 209 Y
Project management specialists 1,150 Y
Management analysts 1,084 Y
Meeting, convention, and event planners 201 Y
Fundraisers 78 Y
Market research analysts and marketing specialists 542 Y
Business operations specialists, all other 595 Y
Accountants and auditors 1,766 Y
Property appraisers and assessors 70 Y
Budget analysts 67 Y
Credit analysts 35 Y
Financial and investment analysts 422 Y
Personal financial advisors 576 Y
Insurance underwriters 142 Y
Financial examiners 20 Y
Credit counselors and loan officers 352 Y
Tax examiners and collectors, and revenue agents 52 Y
Tax preparers 134 Y
Other financial specialists 115 Y
Computer and information research scientists 29 Y
Computer systems analysts 569 Y
Information security analysts 261 Y
Computer programmers 381 Y
Software developers 2,254 Y
Software quality assurance analysts and testers 72 Y
Web developers 66 Y
Web and digital interface designers 69 Y
Computer support specialists 677 Y
Database administrators and architects 148 Y
Network and computer systems administrators 154 Y
Computer network architects 96 Y
Computer occupations, all other 1,181 Y
Actuaries 32 Y
Mathematicians 8 Y
Operations research analysts 178 Y
Statisticians 50 Y
Other mathematical science occupations 486 Y
Architects, except landscape and naval 254 Y
Landscape architects 32 Y
Surveyors, cartographers, and photogrammetrists 42 Y
Aerospace engineers 168 Y
Agricultural engineers 7 Y
Bioengineers and biomedical engineers 24 Y
Chemical engineers 85 Y
Civil engineers 525 Y
Computer hardware engineers 94 Y
Electrical and electronics engineers 284 Y
Environmental engineers 49 Y
Industrial engineers, including health and safety 274 Y
Marine engineers and naval architects 15 Y
Materials engineers 56 Y
Mechanical engineers 419 Y
Mining and geological engineers, including mining safety engineers 5 Y
Nuclear engineers 7 Y
Petroleum engineers 15 Y
Engineers, all other 685 Y
Architectural and civil drafters 39 Y
Other drafters 79 Y
Electrical and electronic engineering technologists and technicians 79 Y
Other engineering technologists and technicians, except drafters 385 Y
Surveying and mapping technicians 52 Y
Agricultural and food scientists 27 Y
Biological scientists 100 Y
Conservation scientists and foresters 27 Y
Medical scientists 102 Y
Life scientists, all other 5 Y
Astronomers and physicists 24 Y
Atmospheric and space scientists 11 Y
Chemists and materials scientists 106 Y
Environmental scientists and specialists, including health 63 Y
Geoscientists and hydrologists, except geographers 43 Y
Physical scientists, all other 362 Y
Economists 34 Y
Survey researchers 0 Y
Clinical and counseling psychologists 19 N
School psychologists 46 N
Other psychologists 152 N
Sociologists 2 Y
Urban and regional planners 39 Y
Miscellaneous social scientists and related workers 47 N
Agricultural and food science technicians 55 Y
Biological technicians 25 Y
Chemical technicians 75 Y
Environmental science and geoscience technicians 16 Y
Nuclear technicians 3 Y
Social science research assistants 7 Y
Other life, physical, and social science technicians 386 Y
Occupational health and safety specialists and technicians 83 Y
Substance abuse and behavioral disorder counselors 164 N
Educational, guidance, and career counselors and advisors 348 Y
Marriage and family therapists 40 N
Mental health counselors 218 N
Rehabilitation counselors 16 N
Counselors, all other 257 N
Child, family, and school social workers 83 N
Healthcare social workers 118 N
Mental health and substance abuse social workers 37 N
Social workers, all other 596 N
Probation officers and correctional treatment specialists 67 N
Social and human service assistants 210 N
Other community and social service specialists 121 N
Clergy 405 N
Directors, religious activities and education 82 N
Religious workers, all other 82 N
Lawyers 1,146 Y
Judicial law clerks 15 Y
Judges, magistrates, and other judicial workers 57 N
Paralegals and legal assistants 486 Y
Title examiners, abstractors, and searchers 96 Y
Legal support workers, all other 79 Y
Postsecondary teachers 1,058 N
Preschool and kindergarten teachers 644 N
Elementary and middle school teachers 3,511 N
Secondary school teachers 790 N
Special education teachers 349 N
Tutors 165 N
Other teachers and instructors 1,018 N
Archivists, curators, and museum technicians 78 Y
Librarians and media collections specialists 195 Y
Library technicians 31 Y
Teaching assistants 1,462 N
Other educational instruction and library workers 151 Y
Artists and related workers 302 N
Commercial and industrial designers 21 Y
Fashion designers 44 N
Floral designers 49 N
Graphic designers 285 N
Interior designers 125 Y
Merchandise displayers and window trimmers 31 Y
Other designers 379 N
Actors 43 N
Producers and directors 216 Y
Athletes and sports competitors 44 N
Coaches and scouts 362 Y
Umpires, referees, and other sports officials 27 N
Dancers and choreographers 18 N
Music directors and composers 58 N
Musicians and singers 167 N
Disc jockeys, except radio 17 N
Entertainers and performers, sports and related workers, all other 63 N
Broadcast announcers and radio disc jockeys 18 N
News analysts, reporters, and journalists 86 Y
Public relations specialists 135 Y
Editors 113 Y
Technical writers 54 Y
Writers and authors 234 N
Interpreters and translators 97 N
Court reporters and simultaneous captioners 24 N
Media and communication workers, all other 23 Y
Broadcast, sound, and lighting technicians 121 N
Photographers 216 N
Television, video, and film camera operators and editors 129 N
Media and communication equipment workers, all other 2 N
Chiropractors 66 N
Dentists 192 N
Dietitians and nutritionists 136 N
Optometrists 48 N
Pharmacists 365 N
Emergency medicine physicians 25 N
Radiologists 19 N
Other physicians 929 N
Surgeons 73 N
Physician assistants 153 N
Podiatrists 9 N
Audiologists 20 N
Occupational therapists 138 N
Physical therapists 338 N
Radiation therapists 10 N
Recreational therapists 13 N
Respiratory therapists 89 N
Speech-language pathologists 203 N
Exercise physiologists 5 N
Therapists, all other 323 N
Veterinarians 91 N
Registered nurses 3,528 N
Nurse anesthetists 25 N
Nurse midwives 11 N
Nurse practitioners 325 N
Acupuncturists 20 N
Healthcare diagnosing or treating practitioners, all other 17 N
Clinical laboratory technologists and technicians 313 Y
Dental hygienists 203 N
Cardiovascular technologists and technicians 67 Y
Diagnostic medical sonographers 119 Y
Radiologic technologists and technicians 274 Y
Magnetic resonance imaging technologists 64 N
Nuclear medicine technologists and medical dosimetrists 41 Y
Emergency medical technicians 135 Y
Paramedics 117 N
Pharmacy technicians 373 N
Psychiatric technicians 142 N
Surgical technologists 107 N
Veterinary technologists and technicians 145 N
Dietetic technicians and ophthalmic medical technicians 68 N
Licensed practical and licensed vocational nurses 545 N
Medical records specialists 166 N
Opticians, dispensing 50 N
Miscellaneous health technologists and technicians 126 N
Other healthcare practitioners and technical occupations 139 N
Home health aides 726 N
Personal care aides 1,840 N
Nursing assistants 1,404 N
Orderlies and psychiatric aides 60 N
Occupational therapy assistants and aides 35 Y
Physical therapist assistants and aides 130 N
Massage therapists 183 N
Dental assistants 287 N
Medical assistants 680 N
Medical transcriptionists 41 Y
Pharmacy aides 33 N
Veterinary assistants and laboratory animal caretakers 63 N
Phlebotomists 144 N
Other healthcare support workers 205 N
First-line supervisors of correctional officers 50 N
First-line supervisors of police and detectives 107 N
First-line supervisors of firefighting and prevention workers 55 N
First-line supervisors of security workers 85 N
First-line supervisors of protective service workers, all other 2 N
Firefighters 352 N
Fire inspectors 30 Y
Bailiffs 21 N
Correctional officers and jailers 296 N
Detectives and criminal investigators 155 Y
Fish and game wardens 11 N
Parking enforcement workers 12 N
Police officers 705 N
Animal control workers 7 N
Private detectives and investigators 154 N
Security guards and gambling surveillance officers 962 N
Crossing guards and flaggers 55 N
Transportation security screeners 52 N
School bus monitors 38 N
Other protective service workers 194 N
Chefs and head cooks 516 N
First-line supervisors of food preparation and serving workers 527 N
Cooks 2,099 N
Food preparation workers 930 N
Bartenders 432 N
Fast food and counter workers 959 N
Waiters and waitresses 1,754 N
Food servers, nonrestaurant 233 N
Dining room and cafeteria attendants and bartender helpers 256 N
Dishwashers 245 N
Hosts and hostesses, restaurant, lounge, and coffee shop 326 N
Food preparation and serving related workers, all other 15 N
First-line supervisors of housekeeping and janitorial workers 354 N
First-line supervisors of landscaping, lawn service, and groundskeeping workers 288 N
Janitors and building cleaners 2,341 N
Maids and housekeeping cleaners 1,392 N
Pest control workers 93 N
Landscaping and groundskeeping workers 1,114 N
Tree trimmers and pruners 101 N
Other grounds maintenance workers 25 N
Supervisors of personal care and service workers 48 N
Animal trainers 55 N
Animal caretakers 364 N
Gambling services workers 97 N
Ushers, lobby attendants, and ticket takers 39 N
Other entertainment attendants and related workers 224 N
Embalmers, crematory operators, and funeral attendants 13 N
Morticians, undertakers, and funeral arrangers 36 N
Barbers 141 N
Hairdressers, hairstylists, and cosmetologists 747 N
Manicurists and pedicurists 277 N
Skincare specialists 113 N
Other personal appearance workers 31 N
Baggage porters, bellhops, and concierges 80 N
Tour and travel guides 56 Y
Childcare workers 1,106 N
Exercise trainers and group fitness instructors 281 N
Recreation workers 170 N
Residential advisors 32 N
Personal care and service workers, all other 147 N
First-line supervisors of retail sales workers 2,977 Y
First-line supervisors of non-retail sales workers 1,036 Y
Cashiers 2,490 N
Counter and rental clerks 73 N
Parts salespersons 129 N
Retail salespersons 2,661 N
Advertising sales agents 138 N
Insurance sales agents 618 Y
Securities, commodities, and financial services sales agents 199 Y
Travel agents 81 Y
Sales representatives of services, except advertising, insurance, financial services, and travel 695 Y
Sales representatives, wholesale and manufacturing 1,145 Y
Models, demonstrators, and product promoters 39 N
Real estate brokers and sales agents 1,065 Y
Sales engineers 58 Y
Telemarketers 26 N
Door-to-door sales workers, news and street vendors, and related workers 254 N
Sales and related workers, all other 476 N
First-line supervisors of office and administrative support workers 1,382 Y
Switchboard operators, including answering service 9 N
Telephone operators 26 N
Communications equipment operators, all other 4 N
Bill and account collectors 111 N
Billing and posting clerks 403 N
Bookkeeping, accounting, and auditing clerks 1,254 Y
Gambling cage workers 22 N
Payroll and timekeeping clerks 166 Y
Procurement clerks 43 Y
Tellers 224 N
Financial clerks, all other 161 Y
Brokerage clerks 2 Y
Correspondence clerks 10 N
Court, municipal, and license clerks 64 N
Credit authorizers, checkers, and clerks 30 Y
Customer service representatives 2,600 N
Eligibility interviewers, government programs 90 N
File Clerks 147 N
Hotel, motel, and resort desk clerks 99 N
Interviewers, except eligibility and loan 172 N
Library assistants, clerical 71 N
Loan interviewers and clerks 84 Y
New accounts clerks 10 Y
Order clerks 87 Y
Human resources assistants, except payroll and timekeeping 124 N
Receptionists and information clerks 1,247 N
Reservation and transportation ticket agents and travel clerks 125 N
Information and record clerks, all other 101 Y
Cargo and freight agents 27 Y
Couriers and messengers 949 N
Public safety telecommunicators 90 N
Dispatchers, except police, fire, and ambulance 180 N
Meter readers, utilities 17 N
Postal service clerks 96 N
Postal service mail carriers 371 N
Postal service mail sorters, processors, and processing machine operators 52 N
Production, planning, and expediting clerks 212 Y
Shipping, receiving, and inventory clerks 604 Y
Weighers, measurers, checkers, and samplers, recordkeeping 91 N
Executive secretaries and executive administrative assistants 249 Y
Legal secretaries and administrative assistants 38 Y
Medical secretaries and administrative assistants 103 Y
Secretaries and administrative assistants, except legal, medical, and executive 1,491 Y
Data entry keyers 229 N
Word processors and typists 62 N
Desktop publishers 1 N
Insurance claims and policy processing clerks 274 Y
Mail clerks and mail machine operators, except postal service 63 N
Office clerks, general 1,436 Y
Office machine operators, except computer 23 N
Proofreaders and copy markers 18 N
Statistical assistants 44 Y
Office and administrative support workers, all other 859 N
First-line supervisors of farming, fishing, and forestry workers 50 N
Agricultural inspectors 11 Y
Animal breeders 16 N
Graders and sorters, agricultural products 58 N
Miscellaneous agricultural workers 765 N
Fishing and hunting workers 35 N
Forest and conservation workers 19 N
Logging workers 46 N
First-line supervisors of construction trades and extraction workers 788 N
Boilermakers 13 N
Brickmasons, blockmasons, and stonemasons 121 N
Carpenters 1,178 N
Carpet, floor, and tile installers and finishers 105 N
Cement masons, concrete finishers, and terrazzo workers 51 N
Construction laborers 2,382 N
Construction equipment operators 404 N
Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers, and tapers 122 N
Electricians 1,063 N
Glaziers 32 N
Insulation workers 48 N
Painters and paperhangers 485 N
Pipelayers 46 N
Plumbers, pipefitters, and steamfitters 624 N
Plasterers and stucco masons 27 N
Reinforcing iron and rebar workers 10 N
Roofers 259 N
Sheet metal workers 148 N
Structural iron and steel workers 42 N
Solar photovoltaic installers 22 N
Helpers, construction trades 53 N
Construction and building inspectors 120 Y
Elevator and escalator installers and repairers 34 N
Fence erectors 42 N
Hazardous materials removal workers 23 N
Highway maintenance workers 61 N
Rail-track laying and maintenance equipment operators 8 N
Septic tank servicers and sewer pipe cleaners 12 N
Miscellaneous construction and related workers 19 N
Derrick, rotary drill, and service unit operators, oil and gas 21 N
Excavating and loading machine and dragline operators, surface mining 4 N
Earth drillers, except oil and gas 25 N
Explosives workers, ordnance handling experts, and blasters 9 N
Underground mining machine operators 36 N
Roustabouts, oil and gas 8 N
Other extraction workers 46 N
First-line supervisors of mechanics, installers, and repairers 285 N
Computer, automated teller, and office machine repairers 132 N
Radio and telecommunications equipment installers and repairers 140 N
Avionics technicians 14 N
Electric motor, power tool, and related repairers 25 N
Electrical and electronics installers and repairers, transportation equipment 5 N
Electrical and electronics repairers, industrial and utility 10 N
Electronic equipment installers and repairers, motor vehicles 13 N
Audiovisual equipment installers and repairers 43 N
Security and fire alarm systems installers 58 N
Aircraft mechanics and service technicians 165 N
Automotive body and related repairers 130 N
Automotive glass installers and repairers 25 N
Automotive service technicians and mechanics 901 N
Bus and truck mechanics and diesel engine specialists 369 N
Heavy vehicle and mobile equipment service technicians and mechanics 168 N
Small engine mechanics 41 N
Miscellaneous vehicle and mobile equipment mechanics, installers, and repairers 106 N
Control and valve installers and repairers 23 N
Heating, air conditioning, and refrigeration mechanics and installers 561 N
Home appliance repairers 52 N
Industrial and refractory machinery mechanics 329 N
Maintenance and repair workers, general 717 N
Maintenance workers, machinery 67 N
Millwrights 45 N
Electrical power-line installers and repairers 144 N
Telecommunications line installers and repairers 110 N
Precision instrument and equipment repairers 55 N
Wind turbine service technicians 9 N
Coin, vending, and amusement machine servicers and repairers 39 N
Commercial divers 1 N
Locksmiths and safe repairers 36 N
Manufactured building and mobile home installers 1 N
Riggers 15 N
Helpers–installation, maintenance, and repair workers 14 N
Other installation, maintenance, and repair workers 211 N
First-line supervisors of production and operating workers 749 N
Aircraft structure, surfaces, rigging, and systems assemblers 3 N
Electrical, electronics, and electromechanical assemblers 113 N
Engine and other machine assemblers 14 N
Structural metal fabricators and fitters 22 N
Other assemblers and fabricators 873 N
Bakers 277 N
Butchers and other meat, poultry, and fish processing workers 255 N
Food and tobacco roasting, baking, and drying machine operators and tenders 13 N
Food batchmakers 93 N
Food cooking machine operators and tenders 15 N
Food processing workers, all other 119 N
Computer numerically controlled tool operators and programmers 77 N
Forming machine setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic 16 N
Cutting, punching, and press machine setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic 53 N
Grinding, lapping, polishing, and buffing machine tool setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic 37 N
Other machine tool setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic 3 N
Machinists 309 N
Metal furnace operators, tenders, pourers, and casters 20 N
Model makers and patternmakers, metal and plastic 2 N
Molders and molding machine setters, operators, and tenders, metal and plastic 34 N
Tool and die makers 29 N
Welding, soldering, and brazing workers 573 N
Other metal workers and plastic workers 307 N
Prepress technicians and workers 10 N
Printing press operators 142 N
Print binding and finishing workers 5 N
Laundry and dry-cleaning workers 137 N
Pressers, textile, garment, and related materials 20 N
Sewing machine operators 92 N
Shoe and leather workers 12 N
Tailors, dressmakers, and sewers 60 N
Textile machine setters, operators, and tenders 18 N
Upholsterers 20 N
Other textile, apparel, and furnishings workers 14 N
Cabinetmakers and bench carpenters 42 N
Furniture finishers 20 N
Sawing machine setters, operators, and tenders, wood 15 N
Woodworking machine setters, operators, and tenders, except sawing 5 N
Other woodworkers 37 N
Power plant operators, distributors, and dispatchers 45 N
Stationary engineers and boiler operators 108 N
Water and wastewater treatment plant and system operators 118 N
Miscellaneous plant and system operators 42 N
Chemical processing machine setters, operators, and tenders 55 N
Crushing, grinding, polishing, mixing, and blending workers 71 N
Cutting workers 40 N
Extruding, forming, pressing, and compacting machine setters, operators, and tenders 17 N
Furnace, kiln, oven, drier, and kettle operators and tenders 15 N
Inspectors, testers, sorters, samplers, and weighers 737 N
Jewelers and precious stone and metal workers 42 N
Dental and ophthalmic laboratory technicians and medical appliance technicians 75 N
Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 242 N
Painting workers 173 N
Photographic process workers and processing machine operators 24 N
Adhesive bonding machine operators and tenders 7 N
Etchers and engravers 6 N
Molders, shapers, and casters, except metal and plastic 32 N
Paper goods machine setters, operators, and tenders 14 N
Tire builders 14 N
Helpers–production workers 68 N
Other production equipment operators and tenders 4 N
Other production workers 1,286 N
Supervisors of transportation and material moving workers 302 N
Aircraft pilots and flight engineers 201 N
Air traffic controllers and airfield operations specialists 40 N
Flight attendants 129 N
Ambulance drivers and attendants, except emergency medical technicians 17 N
Bus drivers, school 210 N
Bus drivers, transit and intercity 268 N
Driver/sales workers and truck drivers 3,583 N
Shuttle drivers and chauffeurs 82 N
Taxi drivers 575 N
Motor vehicle operators, all other 144 N
Locomotive engineers and operators 33 N
Railroad conductors and yardmasters 56 N
Other rail transportation workers 26 N
Sailors and marine oilers 19 N
Ship and boat captains and operators 46 N
Ship engineers 3 N
Parking attendants 76 N
Transportation service attendants 92 N
Transportation inspectors 44 N
Passenger attendants 37 N
Other transportation workers 47 N
Crane and tower operators 59 N
Conveyor, dredge, and hoist and winch operators 34 N
Industrial truck and tractor operators 640 N
Cleaners of vehicles and equipment 396 N
Laborers and freight, stock, and material movers, hand 2,203 N
Machine feeders and offbearers 26 N
Packers and packagers, hand 582 N
Stockers and order fillers 1,696 N
Pumping station operators 14 N
Refuse and recyclable material collectors 127 N
Other material moving workers 77 N

One may quibble, of course (I mean, some legislators use spreadsheets, others don’t, so whatcha gonna do), but the difference is about 36,000,000 more people don’t use spreadsheets in their jobs than those who do.

Y’all are welcome. Or not. :stuck_out_tongue:

88

I did exactly the same thing! It would accrue allowance automatically and I would log what I paid them and adjust it back down. I also created one to randomly pick a Star Trek TOS episode to watch and keep track so that I got through the series randomly with no repeats.

89

@DSeid Do you not use spreadsheets at all in your personal life? Planning a vacation, tracking fitness, creating checklists? Not a criticism at all.

Before this thread I would have asserted that every adult uses them. I had thought they were more common than word processers as many people will compose with their email editor.

If I have to create or edit a table, it’s much easier to edit in a spreadsheet than in a word doc. I use them even if there is no math.

An office that has dedicated, custom tools (like often in healthcare) might not need them. However offices with more variety of business processes will make heavy use. At my work we use them more than we should because you don’t need to create a custom app, they have the right balance of sharing and protection, and they’re ubiquitous.

FWIW, I work in AI and we frequently use spreadsheets (or the redheaded stepchild – csv files). For small datasets or quick-and-dirty tasks, they work better.

Forgot to answer the OP: i think it’s a necessary skill in the near term. It’s not just about writing formulas, but also visualizing data, experimenting, and understanding the problem domain. AI can create formulas and graphs, but an understanding of the foundations will make the human driving the AI more effective. It will be some time before the human isn’t needed at all to drive it.

90

Not at all. I can’t even imagine any utility of that? Or for tracking kids’ allowances. These are things that need or even benefit from a database for some people? Boggles my mind! It seems insane. A jackhammer to treat a wart. Using a calculator to add two plus three.

I grab a piece of scrap paper and write my checklists and check them off. My marathon training schedule was a piece of paper that I wrote the plan out in and then what I did as I did it. It worked fine! No formulae needed. Likewise for every other training bit I’ve ever done. They were spreadsheets of an old school sort of way, I guess, but using a computer for that?!? Honestly I mostly keep track in my head just fine. Daily I just do and do not track (for me it is playtime not work.)

I’m no Luddite but sometimes the best tool for a job is old school. Our group of six docs now keeps our call and rounding schedule on Google Calendar. I still belief the big wall calendar was easier to view and effectively use when trying to figure out who to try to trade with for coverage needs.

FWIW here is the Claude estimates on use as active creation:

Active creation — building formulas, designing structure, writing complex logic, using pivot tables, doing data modeling — is a much smaller subset. Rough estimates based on occupational data and the kinds of roles that require this skill (financial analysts, accountants, data analysts, operations planners, certain engineers, etc.) suggest that perhaps 10–20% of the total adult workforce are genuine builders of spreadsheets rather than consumers of them.
Among the upper-income third, that fraction rises — probably to somewhere in the 25–40% range, since that tier is more concentrated with analysts, finance professionals, managers who build their own models, and so on.

AI caveat given but I trust it for a reasoned guess here. Really not as ubiquitous of a skill set even now as many of you seem to think it is.

91

Yeah, i know some scientists. They all use spreadsheets. The attorney may not use a spreadsheet, but the office manager in the law firm certainly does.

I use spreadsheets to keep track of who I’m inviting to my new years Eve party, and whether they came last year, and whether they RSVP’d first. I keep a spreadsheet of my husband’s key medical test results. I track my professional continuing education in a spreadsheet. (I need so many hours of this, and so many of that, and some of them can be self study, and some need to be in person organized events. It’s really easy to keep track with a spreadsheet. I just type in what i did and the spreadsheet keeps a running tally.) I have a giant spreadsheet i use to organize a dance weekend i run with a friend. My square dance group uses a very simple shared spreadsheet to track whether enough dancers will show up next week for us to meet, and what level we’ll be dancing.

You somehow think a spreadsheet is a jackhammer. It’s not, it’s a pocket knife. And yeah, I’ve trimmed a wart with a pocket knife.

92

Agreed. Spreadsheets are as easy to use as that scrap piece of paper some are using for checklists and I would argue easier.

I hike, cycle, camp, and backpack a lot. You know what you need for those endeavors? A checklist. Thank god I don’t have to hand-write out our checklists every fucking week!

Not that that is the only use for a spreadsheet. I use them daily at work, but also daily in my home life.

93

Yes, correct.

My first ever dev job, I got complete control of the codebase and a copy of the book “Access for Dummies”

It really did not take me too long to convince my boss that MS Access was not a web dev tool… although a bit later I was using XSLT to show Excel data in real time on the web, via a single user intance. No concurrent users.

The data lived in a single Excel spreadsheet on our client’s laptop (you can guess at the scope of possible disaster).

As you can imagine, while that was a pretty good stunt for a very junior developer being supervised by a graphic designer (small shop), because… single user means single. That is, one online customer at any time. Even online. One user.

Now I am very puritan on “right tool for the job” and careful research & discussion to get consensus about how to approach a problem.

You learn from your boss’s mistakes, as well as your own.

94

Glad to see I’m not the only one! They’re so useful and so easy to use on a basic level. I use them almost as often as word processors to organize information.

95

FWIW I can, on consideration, certainly see that someone whose personal ecosystem includes spending lots of time opening, entering, and creating computer spreadsheets, would feel that way.

And I hope that group can appreciate the technological advantage of a portable scrap of paper stuffed in a pocket or tacked on a board that is immediately accessible powered by ambient light and with multiple back ups to its entry medium of pens and pencils (when any written record is of use … which I still don’t get for weekly allowance). :grinning_face:

96

Absolutely! That’s why my grocery list is a physical piece of paper that lives on the fridge.

During the pandemic, when we did a big shopping every 4 weeks, it was a Google sheet. And it was useful to be that organized, and be able to sort the items in various ways k incoming what order i would encounter them at the store.) But i always printed a copy before i left for the grocery store.

I have a friend who is a prominent computer scientist who has taken up square dance calling. Like many higher-level callers, he uses computer software to write most of his material. And he always prints a copy, with large font, on plain paper, to bring to the dance. Printed paper is incredibly reliable. But he also brings his laptop, and could read off of it, or print a new copy, as a backup.

97

If no one has ever taught you what a hammer is, you spend your life pounding nails with your shoe.

Here are some non-mathematical uses of spreadsheets.
Conferences I’ve been involved with allow you to dump paper review information into a spreadsheet, where the scores can be analyzed. I also wrote code to take the spreadsheet of accepted papers, dumped into a text xls file, and generate a Word file of the Program using it.
I have my SF books and magazines in two spreadsheets. That lets me search easily. I also have a database, but I can dump the spreadsheets into pdf and put it on my phone, so I can look up whether I have a book I see on the shelves. I’ve got lots of books, more than brain cells these days, so I often own a book I think I don’t. Has saved me tons of money.

I’m judging books for a contest. I have over 150 of them. I make up spreadsheets for each category, which lets me enter my scores, make notes, and sort. That lets me get everything in good shape before I enter the scores online. I can also tweak the scores if necessary.
BTW, my son-in-law is a big spreadsheet fan, and used one to plan their wedding. Of course he did. He’s German.

98

Heh, we had a couple of shared spreadsheets when we were planning a wedding.

99

And when you always have a hammer in your hand everything looks like a nail!

100

Today I was changing out my weekly challenges for grades 3-5. Currently it’s a set of laminated signs that I inherited from a previous teacher, and they work well enough, but some of them are outdated, and some of them include incorrect information (no, you can’t see the Great Wall of China from space), and the whole set is just a little too Eurocentric for my tastes. So one of my projects for next year is setting up a new set of weekly challenges. I want challenges that include math, logic, literature, history, geography, pop culture, and science in roughly equal measures, and I want to be sure that they’re not all Eurocentric.

The best way to do that, I think, is in a spreadsheet.

I can put the text of the challenge in one column, the category in a second column, the grade in a third column, and have a fourth column for geographical focus. I can sort and filter by whatever criteria I need, adding new columns when necessary. Once I’ve got it set up, I can copy the relevant column to a doc and format it there for printing and cutting and laminating.

Paper gets lost and carries its information with it and doesn’t sort or filter. Spreadsheets are useable on a phone and are saved on the cloud. And I’m guessing you dealt with allowance back in the days when cash was king, as opposed to today when it’s practically an obsolete technology, certainly more obsolete than writing spreadsheet equations. Paper has precious few advantages for data analysis and manipulation over spreadsheets.