# Spy Kids seek Canadian Citizenship in Supreme Court of Canada **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [December 7, 2018, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726 "2018-12-07T01:52:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/21 "2018-12-08T19:48:25Z")
World is round, It’s not fair, It’s just round. Need to know more about the family. IMO, if the kids did not know, they are very stupid and inattentive people. How/why were the parents able to completely fool the kids and what makes people so sure that they went to that effort. What conditioning did they do to the kids to make them more likely to also be spies in the future? IMO, automatic citizenship needs a lot more knowledge and investigating than has been done yet. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/22 "2018-12-08T20:55:05Z")
The “kids” are 24 and 28. Suppose they already had children born in Canada. Do you think the grandchildren should be deported as well?" ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/23 "2018-12-08T21:00:15Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > IMO, if the kids did not know, they are very stupid and inattentive people. > How/why were the parents able to completely fool the kids and what makes people so sure that they went to that effort. What, do you think being a spy involves having some sort of mysterious machines set up in the living room which nobody else has? Whatever you had as you grew up is what you take as normal, until experience teaches you otherwise (if ever). People grow up in multilingual homes, in monolingual homes, in loving homes, in abusive homes, in homes with a parent who’s a ham-radio aficionado, in homes where nobody knows how to change a lightbulb. What do you think was so amazingly out of the norm about “parents are moles” that their children would have known about it before the intelligence services did? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2018, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/24 "2018-12-08T21:35:40Z")
If cruelty is the goal, then _keeping_ their Canadian citizenship should be the goal. This will help keep the kids from hanging out with their spy parents all the time. The kids might not even want to go visit their parents at all. Want to make the parents happy? Deport the kids. (If the goal is to be cruel to the kids, then those people need to see a therapist.) I think Paige and Henry Jennings are also wondering about their status in this regard. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/25 "2018-12-09T02:22:14Z")
Yeah, I’d have to land on the side of “sins of the parents not being visited on the kids.” The “kids” (I know they’re not kids any more) had nothing to do with this. Not sure how anyone benefits from punishing the innocent in this particular case. I agree it will be interesting to see the arguments and the final decision. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/26 "2018-12-09T20:13:06Z")
It’s theoretically possible, but I doubt it will happen, since the Feds have been opposed to their citizenship from the start. In any event, I assume the Feds will wait until after the SCC rules in the case before considering anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/27 "2018-12-09T21:47:01Z")
What Would Donald Do? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/28 "2018-12-09T22:25:05Z")
The children were born in Canada to illegal immigrants who took on other people’s identities and were employed as Russian spies. When the children were born, neither of their parents were Canadian citizens or landed residents in Canada, and both parents were employed by Russia. The following would preclude the children from being Canadian by birth. > [@](#): > > C[Citizenship Act](https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-c-29/latest/rsc-1985-c-c-29.html#sec3subsec2_smooth) s. 3 (2) Paragraph (1)(a) does not apply to a person if, at the time of his birth, neither of his parents was a citizen or lawfully admitted to Canada for permanent residence and either of his parents was > > (a) a diplomatic or consular officer or other representative or employee in Canada of a foreign government; The last time the children lived in Canada was when they were ages 1 and 4. They then lived in France for four years, following which they lived in the USA where they became naturalized American citizens, until they lost that status when their parents were found out. They now have Russian passports. I don’t see any strong compassionate reason to give them Canadian citizenship, for they were never eligible for it and they were too young to even remember anything about Canada, let alone have close personal and cultural ties to Canada or even a feeling that Canada is their home. Don’t hold their parents against them, but also don’t let them jump the line. Let them apply to immigrate. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2018, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/29 "2018-12-09T22:59:33Z")
If they have little-no cultural ties to this country, stemming from having never lived here since they were 1 & 4 years of age, then I resend my previous statement on the cruelty of denying them Canadian citizenship. I, personally, feel they should still be allowed to be Canadians, but the government’s denial of birthright citizenship wouldn’t be (at all) cruel in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/30 "2018-12-10T00:34:59Z")
The kids’ dad: [http://eurasian-strategies.com/about-us/senior-advisors/](http://eurasian-strategies.com/about-us/senior-advisors/) A well thought out report on Trump by the kids’ dad (who went through Harvard’s Kennedy School of Government, and who now is a prof at a top university in Russia): [http://eurasian-strategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Donald-Trump-a-Professional-Profile-of-the-New-U.S.-President.pdf](http://eurasian-strategies.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Donald-Trump-a-Professional-Profile-of-the-New-U.S.-President.pdf) The now adult children will continue to do just fine even if they don’t end up in Canada, and welcome to Canada if they do end up here. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/31 "2018-12-10T01:23:19Z")
Okay, I’m confused. **Northern Piper** said “The sons have lived most of their lives in Canada, thinking they were Canadian.” (Post 4) Then **Muffin** said “The last time the children lived in Canada was when they were ages 1 and 4. They then lived in France for four years, following which they lived in the USA where they became naturalized American citizens, until they lost that status when their parents were found out. They now have Russian passports.” (Post 28) These two claims seem, shall we say, contradictory. Which is correct? Are we talking about the same case here? ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/32 "2018-12-10T01:31:26Z")
> [@](#): > > [3] While Mr. Vavilov’s parents were living in Canada, both completed post-secondary education and were employed under their assumed identities. When the children were born, Ms. Vavilova became a stay-at-home mother and Mr. Bezrukov continued to run a successful business. In 1995, Mr. Bezrukov undertook post-secondary study in France. The family left Canada to take up residence in France. The children were 1 and 4 years old, respectively, at that time. It is also the last time any member of the family resided in Canada. The family lived in France until August of 1999, after which they moved to Boston, Massachusetts where Mr. Bezrukov began studies at Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government. Source: Vavilov v. Canada (Citizenship and Immigration), [2016] 2 FCR 39, 2015 FC 960 (CanLII), par. 3, \<[http://canlii.ca/t/gkr9s#par3>](http://canlii.ca/t/gkr9s#par3>), retrieved on 2018-12-09. I’m just waiting for a connection between Bezruko and Trump to arise, beyond his being a Trump expert. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/33 "2018-12-10T15:48:07Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > If they have little-no cultural ties to this country, stemming from having never lived here since they were 1 & 4 years of age, then I \*\*resend \*\*my previous statement on the cruelty of denying them Canadian citizenship… Do you mean “rescind”? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2018, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/34 "2018-12-10T17:27:18Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Do you mean “rescind”? You know, I thought of correcting myself in a second post (about an hour after the erred one) then I paused and decided against it. “Why be so neurotic? Noone will bother me with this” _sigh_ Yeah. I meant rescind. ---
**Author:** ![AHarris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bcef8e/32.png) [@AHarris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHarris)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/35 "2019-12-19T18:29:28Z")
The Supreme Court has ruled that they are Canadian citizens. I don’t have access to the ruling, but from the article it seems that they ruled that they ruled that since the parents weren’t diplomats or attached to diplomats, the exception clause quoted by Muffin doesn’t apply. Link: [https://www.cp24.com/news/supreme-court-rules-sons-of-russian-spies-are-canadian-citizens-1.4736940](https://www.cp24.com/news/supreme-court-rules-sons-of-russian-spies-are-canadian-citizens-1.4736940) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726/36 "2019-12-19T19:32:30Z")
Link to judgment: > **[Canada (Minister of Citizenship and Immigration) v. Vavilov - SCC Cases](https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/18078/index.do)** > > This page contains a form to search the Supreme Court of Canada case information database. You can search by the SCC 5-digit case number, by name or word in the style of cause, or by file number from the appeal court. Haven’t had a chance to look at it yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/spy-kids-seek-canadian-citizenship-in-supreme-court-of-canada/825726.md?page=1)