# Squatters--why is this allowed? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 1, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450 "2025-01-01T18:30:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/1 "2025-01-01T18:30:55Z")
with recent stories about squatters commandeering “occupied” properties and refusing to leave and declaring “illegal?” ownership, why are localities allowing this law to continue? What happened to property rights. Also, why isn’t trespassing legally enforceable by police? this makes no sense to me ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/2 "2025-01-01T18:35:21Z")
Do you have any citations for “recent stories”? Because I’m going to assume that lacking specifics, every incident has a different set of circumstances and the responses would obviously vary accordingly. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/3 "2025-01-01T18:48:31Z")
Which “law” are you talking about? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/4 "2025-01-01T18:56:46Z")
You might start by reading up on the underlying principles of law: > **[Adverse possession](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession)** > > Adverse possession in common law, and the related civil law concept of usucaption (also acquisitive prescription or prescriptive acquisition), are legal mechanisms under which a person who does not have legal title to a piece of property, usually real property, may acquire legal ownership based on continuous possession or occupation without the permission (licence) of its legal owner. > It is sometimes colloquially described as squatter's rights, a term associated with occupation without legal t... And this: > **[Squatting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squatting)** > > Squatting is the action of occupying an abandoned or unoccupied area of land or a building, usually residential that the squatter does not own, rent or otherwise have lawful permission to use. The United Nations estimated in 2003 that there were one billion slum residents and squatters globally. Squatting occurs worldwide and tends to occur when people find empty buildings or land to occupy for housing. It has a long history, broken down by country below. > In developing countries and least develo... Armed with some history and knowledge, you can formulate a less loaded and less emotional question for discussion. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/5 "2025-01-01T18:56:48Z")
forgot to add isn’t this a ‘taking of property’? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/6 "2025-01-01T18:57:39Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > forgot to add isn’t this a ‘taking of property’ …and forgot to add cites or examples of: > [@fedman1](#): > > recent stories about squatters commandeering “occupied” properties and refusing to leave and declaring “illegal?” ownership ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/7 "2025-01-01T19:00:35Z")
## This abandoned mansion is also owned by John Powers Middleton, film producer and son of Philadelphia Phillies owner John S. Middleton Published September 24, 2024 5:06pm EDT ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/8 "2025-01-01T19:02:51Z")
but my original question is why did states create law that allows someone to take your personal property without compensation? ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/9 "2025-01-01T19:03:30Z")
In the case you didn’t bother to link to, the owner had abandoned the property and refused to deal with it. So it doesn’t fit your OP. > **[Two abandoned mansions owned by a Hollywood producer are covered in graffiti](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/two-abandoned-mansions-owned-hollywood-producer-are-covered-grafitti-rcna172756)** > > Neighbors say squatters took over the empty homes owned by John Powers Middleton before the spray-painters swooped in. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/10 "2025-01-01T19:03:58Z")
1. You’ve been here long enough to know how to put actual links to web sites in your posts. 2. Can you give some actual examples of these laws which you believe exist? > [@fedman1](#): > > why did states create law that allows someone to take your personal property without compensation? ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/11 "2025-01-01T19:07:28Z")
I believe LSL answered that, and there are regular stories online I didn’t feel I needed to cite every one ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/12 "2025-01-01T19:08:21Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > In the case you didn’t bother to link to, the owner had abandoned the property and refused to deal with it. So it doesn’t fit your OP. Quoting from the article to which @needscoffee has linked: > [@](#): > > It’s so bad that Los Angeles City Councilmember [Nithya Raman](https://cd4.lacity.gov/), who represents the area, has warned Middleton that he’s in “egregious violation of the law,” and both the police department and building inspectors have visited the properties. > > “This is a public safety issue with serious consequences for both neighbors and the surrounding community,” Raman’s office said in a statement to [NBC](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/vacant-abandoned-hollywood-hills-mansion-graffiti/3518856/) [Los Angeles](https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/vacant-abandoned-hollywood-hills-mansion-graffiti/3518856/). “Irresponsible property owners must take accountability for their property or face action from the city.” > [@](#): > > NBCLA reported that Middleton bought the four-story, six-bedroom mansion with a pool in 2012. A decade later, the city’s Department of Building and Safety declared it a nuisance and ordered Middleton to build a fence to secure the property. > > When he didn’t, the city erected chain-link fencing around the structure, NBCLA reported. So, yeah, this is _not_ a case of "squatters moved onto my property, and the law is keeping me from being able to evict them!’ This is “I own property that I’ve left neglected and abandoned, and have refused to act in accord with govermental directives to take care of them.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/13 "2025-01-01T19:08:52Z")
You don’t need to cite every one. You do, however, need to cite at least something. “There are so many examples that I can’t name any at all” has never been a valid argument. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/14 "2025-01-01T19:08:56Z")
> [@fedman1](#): > > I believe LSL answered that, and there are regular stories online I didn’t feel I needed to cite every one You are the one who started this thread, and has made statements that you refuse to back up with examples. If you expect other posters to actually engage in conversation and debate with you, but also make _them_ do all the legwork, you’re either being lazy or disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/15 "2025-01-01T19:13:23Z")
The answers to your questions are in @LSLGuy’s link to Adverse Possession. ---
**Author:** ![fedman1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e495f1/32.png) [@fedman1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fedman1)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/16 "2025-01-01T19:13:29Z")
but regardless of examples (I concede my example was flawed, I only picked most recent one) my point is I wanted someone to justify why states allow someone to occupy my property ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/17 "2025-01-01T19:13:53Z")
They don’t. Can you give an example of a case where this happens? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/18 "2025-01-01T19:14:15Z")
Besides, I did not answer any of the OP’s questions. I provided information that they could use to educate themselves on what is in fact a centuries old bit of law. That serves a completely valid purpose. I now think the thread belongs in the Pit as a mere rant. I doubt it can be re-stated and re-railed as a good faith debate. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/19 "2025-01-01T19:14:49Z")
---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2025, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squatters-why-is-this-allowed/1012450/20 "2025-01-01T19:17:42Z")
**Moderating:** As this thread is a mess and far from a well frame debate I will close it. If @fedman1 wants this reopened in the #The BBQ Pit, please let the Moderators know and we’ll move it and reopen it. Otherwise, when you start a thread, especially in #Great Debates, provide links and cites in your Op.