# Squirrels vs. Rats **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 14, 2000, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198 "2000-11-14T20:29:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![IBBen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85f322/32.png) [@IBBen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IBBen)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/1 "2000-11-14T20:29:57Z")
Squirrels are everywhere in Seattle,WA. I just left work and what was running up the sidewalk… a furry little rodent. My thought as I dodged this cute vermin was: Why do rats and the other unsightly rodents hideout in the dark, dingy corners of a city when the squirrels run free? Is it because rats know that we will kill them? Squirrels are cute, therefore we let them live, rats are ugly so they must die. If anyone can ferret this out, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![scratch1300](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@scratch1300](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scratch1300)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/2 "2000-11-14T20:39:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by IBBen \* > **Squirrels are cute, therefore we let them live, rats are ugly so they must die.** Wow, **IBBen** , this makes for a great aphorism. You should consider using it for a signature line. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/3 "2000-11-14T20:42:37Z")
Perhaps it’s because rats are nocturnal, underground-dwelling scavengers, who mostly survive on garbage and dead pigeons, while squirrels are harmless herbvoires who scamper around during the day and live in trees. I _like_ squirrels. ---
**Author:** ![c\_goat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@c\_goat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/c_goat)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/4 "2000-11-14T20:42:38Z")
Well… Didn’t rats spread the black plague (I know the rats personally didn’t, but their fleas did)… I think maybe humans have a grudge against them. Squirrels don’t cause any threats as far as I know. Also I saw on Discovery the other day how in India rats are holy or something. There was a temple full of special holy rats that people go to pray and feed them. So I guess it depends on where you are. ---
**Author:** ![stofsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dfb087/32.png) [@stofsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stofsky)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/5 "2000-11-14T20:47:33Z")
[Uncle Jed]Squirrels is better eatin’. Hand me the pot-passer on your way to the concrete pond, Jethro. [/Uncle Jed] ---
**Author:** ![bashere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@bashere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bashere)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/6 "2000-11-14T21:12:36Z")
I was in seattle last week, and I can assure you that you do in fact have rats in Pioneer Square. In fact, I saw more of the hairless-tail type of vermin than I did the tree climbing type. Also, 1) Didn’t seattle have an out break of the plague in the 20s or 30s? 2) Isn’t seattle the city where rats crawl up sewer lines into toilets? I have to say, I’ve got a pair of squirrels living in the tree in my back yard, and I’d think them much less cute if they were likely to a) kill me (as has been pointed out, via the fleas they carry), or b) invade my bathroom. In general, this is what we refer to as the dolphin/tuna thing. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/7 "2000-11-14T23:21:12Z")
**c\_goat** said: “Squirrels don’t cause any threats as far as I know.” Squirrels can carry at least three diseases potentially fatal to humans: hantavirus, plague, and a type of roundworm called _Baylisascaris procyonis_. I call the gray squirrel the “North American bushy-tailed tree rat.” If you’re tempted to hunt and eat squirrels, I wouldn’t recommend it. A boy in California contracted bubonic plague after doing just that. ---
**Author:** ![Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2000, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/8 "2000-11-14T23:29:14Z")
I -like- rats! and little mice, too! I once saw a mouse at Disneyland. And it wasn’t that big silly one with the red shorts, either. He was in the bushes near one of the lines for some ride. He was eating the remains of a sandwich that some litterbug had tossed aside. He was a male–and his fur was a light brown, with cute little beady eyes! _facepalms_ Why oh why do I remember this all in such great detail? ---
**Author:** ![IBBen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85f322/32.png) [@IBBen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IBBen)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/9 "2000-11-15T00:28:04Z")
What I was getting at was, are rats less visible in society because they know we hate them? Are they conditioned to stay away from humans? Certainly rats could become fat on the same foods which squirrels dine upon so publicly. I have also witnessed the rats in Pioneer Square but on the whole, I have seen many more squirrels than rats in Seattle . ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/10 "2000-11-15T00:51:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\*while squirrels are harmless herbvoires who scamper around during the day and live in trees. > > I _like_ squirrels. \*\* You like squirrels? Come on over and help me fix the hole in my roof those @#$%!! chewed through to get into my attic.:mad: When you see the God damn mess they made you won’t think they are so “harmless”. A squirrel is nothing more than a rat with a bushy tale! Once we agree with that we can join together to exterminate every single last one of them!!! ( :rolleyes: sorry to sound so crabby, but they really did a number on my roof and attic!) ---
**Author:** ![screech-owl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@screech-owl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/screech-owl)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/11 "2000-11-15T03:00:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > **Squirrels can carry at least three diseases potentially fatal to humans: hantavirus, plague, and a type of roundworm called _Baylisascaris procyonis_.** Not to mention rabies - I’ll spare you the gory details of getting bitten and the shots ‘for your safety til we catch it’. ☹ > [@](#): > > **I call the gray squirrel the "North American bushy-tailed tree rat."** Hallelujah!! Someone else calls 'em what they are - ‘tree rats’ (alternate name - ‘middle food-chain management’). {note to **pkbites** - don’t exterminate all of them! - leave something for the hawks and larger owls to eat.) I love watching squirrels fall off the bird feeder at work - we have a dome baffle, and you think the little buggers would get the idea that it is not safe to stand on a plastic slope. Squirrel - shimmies down hanger wire. Hangs on the wire with back legs and reaches forward with forepaws, not quite reaching the edge of the dome. Lets go with back legs and… **VOOOP!** **THUD!** Off the dome onto the ground. The little tiny stars flying around their heads afterwards are just the cutest thing to see. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/12 "2000-11-15T04:30:43Z")
pardon me for hijacking the thread, but as far as I’m concerned, the true enemy is the rural rat, called by some the deer! Freakin’ things tear up my lawn, trash the garden, eat the crops, and saunter in front of my car at odd intervals. The day after hunting season ended, there were 19 of the damned things in my back yard! They die off, the dog brings a piece home to chew on while lying at the front door, then needs treatment for brucellosis! Car-deer accidents have increased 500% in the last 20 years in this area, and human fatalities have gone up correspondingly. Anybody hear want to comment on the Bambi syndrome, which keeps us from killing back a certain animal to manageable numbers? I hear they’ve got the same problem with Koalas in Australia. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/13 "2000-11-15T04:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > \*\*pardon me for hijacking the thread, but as far as I’m concerned, the true enemy is the rural rat, called by some the deer … Well, there’s a fix for that. Reintroduce the wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/14 "2000-11-15T04:57:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pkbites \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > > \*\*while squirrels are harmless herbvoires who scamper around during the day and live in trees. > > > > I _like_ squirrels. \*\* > > You like squirrels? Come on over and help me fix the hole in my roof those @#$%!! chewed through to get into my attic.:mad: When you see the God damn mess they made you won’t think they are so “harmless”. A squirrel is nothing more than a rat with a bushy tale! Once we agree with that we can join together to exterminate every single last one of them!!! > > ( :rolleyes: sorry to sound so crabby, but they really did a number on my roof and attic!) \*\* Huh. I live in Manhattan, and we seem to have achieved a state of peaceful coexistance with the squirrel nation - we live in the buildings, they live in the parks. As far as I know, they never try to invade our turf. If they tried, the rats would probably eat them. So OK, you can wipe out all the harmful rural squirrels. Can you let the urban ones live? The ones in my neighbourhood really _are_ harmless. You can kill as many pigeons as you want, though. Loathsom creatures. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2000, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/15 "2000-11-15T06:02:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Qadgop the Mercotan \* > > \*\*pardon me for hijacking the thread, but as far as I’m concerned, the true enemy is the rural rat, called by some the deer … > > Well, there’s a fix for that. Reintroduce the wolf. \*\* They tried doing just that in Montana… reintroducing a pack on the East Slope… farmers and ranchers threatened to hunt them down and kill them. Apparently the rare sheep that the wolf will take down in extreme emergencys is worth more than an entire extended family of the great grandfather of every dog on earth. Go fig. ---
**Author:** ![DAVEW0071](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19b73/32.png) [@DAVEW0071](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DAVEW0071)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2000, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/16 "2000-11-16T17:23:59Z")
IBBen said: > [@](#): > > What I was getting at was, are rats less visible in society because they know we hate them? Are they conditioned to stay away from humans? Certainly rats could become fat on the same foods which squirrels dine upon so publicly. I think the natural instincts of rats cause them to stay away from humans (although sometimes they’re closer than you think :eek: ). Rats are **1)** nocturnal. Therefore you don’t see as many of them scampering about, _a la_ squirrels. But they are out there. Rats are also **b)** neophobic. They have a natural suspicion and distrust of new elements introduced into their environment. This may have contributed to their nocturnal habits, although I think it’s more likely **iii)** Rats have different eating habits than squirrels. They eat a lot of the same things as squirrels (and many other small rodents). But unlike squirrels, they do not nibble a little now and carry some off and stash it somewhere to be retrieved later. When rats discover a source of food, they eat until they are full. Knowing this, it makes sense that they would wish to be undisturbed during said eating. And so they search out their food at night, when humans and dogs and most other predators are stacking Z’s. \*\*\*More fun rat-facts! \*\*\* Rats are excellent climbers and swimmers, and can achieve a vertical leap of three feet. A rat can squeeze through an opening no bigger around than a quarter. Rats can be cannibalistic. Rats. They’re not just for breakfast anymore. ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2000, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/17 "2000-11-16T22:59:06Z")
I don’t think the [rat king](http://freespace.virgin.net/rat.king/) helps the rat’s case any. Those things are just plain creepy. ---
**Author:** ![retsin2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@retsin2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/retsin2000)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2000, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/18 "2000-11-16T23:02:09Z")
Let me get that [rat king url](http://freespace.virgin.net/rat.king/ratkings.htm) right. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2000, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/19 "2000-11-17T00:06:56Z")
Reminds me of when I went to Yellowstone. At one of the scenic overlooks (overlooking a canyon and a waterfall, can’t recall the name) there was a shelf of rock below the railing where chipmunks gathered to beg for food. There was also one plain old gray rat begging too. I thought it was cute. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198/20 "2000-11-17T00:18:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bibliophage \* > \*\ ***c\_goat** said: > If you’re tempted to hunt and eat squirrels, I wouldn’t recommend it. A boy in California contracted bubonic plague after doing just that. \*\* I grew up out in the sticks and used to eat squirrels. (I feel stupid telling you this, because it evokes false images of me in front of a cabin, clutching a pair of shoes, saying “Now I can go to school! I can be sombody!”) I’m guess I was just lucky - I won’t gainsay your warning, although until now I didn’t know Bubonic plague is orally transmitted. I thought it came from flea bites off of Black rats (rare in Europe and N. America since the larger Norwegian brown rat has taken over). Maybe we didn’t get sick because we only shot & ate squirrels and rabbits in the winter. I don’t know. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/squirrels-vs-rats/41198.md?page=2)