# SSM and Marijuana are legal (kind of). What's next? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 29, 2014, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046 "2014-01-29T17:19:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/41 "2014-01-30T14:14:52Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > While I don’t see them actually being legalized in the foreseeable future, I suspect that the next sexual proclivities to agitate for destigmatization will be polygamy and consensual incest. Polygamy I can see. But incest? Come on, is there really a large enough pro-incest community for that? ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/42 "2014-01-30T14:25:36Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Hmmm. a blog by a courtesan or a peer reviewed study. Which source would I tend to give more credence to? Yeah, that woman’s blog sucks. Come on. And even if “trafficking” is defined as “women crossing the border to be willing prostitutes without a license,” that’s a problem that legalization is supposed to solve, not promote. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/43 "2014-01-30T14:50:42Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Polygamy I can see. But incest? Come on, is there really a large enough pro-incest community for that? To “agitate for destigmatization”- probably. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/44 "2014-01-30T15:16:36Z")
> [@LibrarySpy](#): > > The decriminalization of LSD is just starting Cite, please? Sounds good. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/45 "2014-01-30T15:28:03Z")
I’d assume prostitution would be decriminalized on a state by state basis but I don’t know if the motive is there. I think most adults consider prosecution of hired sex behind closed doors (as opposed to hooking in the street) to be a waste of law enforcement resources compared to more serious crimes. I’d imagine the legalization of escort services (but brothels and street walkers still being illegal) could happen in ten years in the more liberal states. As long as people hire and have consentual sex behind closed doors and away from the publics eye I don’t see the public wanting to use government money to finance a ban on it. I don’t think the drinking age will be lowered. Euthanasia will be decriminalized. Basically if you want to see the future of the US just look to Europe. They tend to be a few decades ahead of us on these issues. ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/46 "2014-01-30T15:32:08Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Euthanasia will be decriminalized. Basically if you want to see the future of the US just look to Europe. They tend to be a few decades ahead of us on these issues. Are you referring to euthanasia specifically, or all of the subjects brought up in the thread so far? Because in _most_ of Europe, marijuana - for one thing - is still super-duper-illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/47 "2014-01-30T15:35:31Z")
IT’s still super-duper illegal in all of the United States, too. Anyway, he said “tend”. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/48 "2014-01-30T15:54:49Z")
I’m sure legalized prostitution has the potential to lead to more sex slavery, abuse of prostitutes etc., but the solution to that would seem to be to regulate it very heavily. Have a police presence in brothels, routine and stringent ID checks, strict enforcement of the laws, etc. I think the drinking age is going to get lowered partly because we _already_ have an unusually high one. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/49 "2014-01-30T15:57:28Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Actually, no, using the Swedish model is a terrible idea. > > Originally Posted by The Honest Courtesan > LIE: The Swedish model has dramatically reduced prostitution and sex trafficking in Sweden. > TRUTH: The Swedish model cannot be shown to have had any effect on rates of prostitution at all, though it has made the lives of sex workers much more difficult and dangerous. Norwegian studies demonstrate that their version of the law has increased sex trafficking and the number of prostitutes, and also promoted pimping."] it does little to reduce prostitution and makes the lives of prostitutes more difficult and dangerous. > > [Source](http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/resources/frequently-told-lies/) The “Honest Courtesan” is–or at least claims to be–a woman named Maggie McNeill. She argues in favor of legalized prostitution. A brief trip around her blog shows that it’s mostly just name-calling. She labels anyone who disagrees with her “retarded”, “psychotic”, and so forth; accuses her opponents of enjoying rape and child molesting; compares them to Nazis and communists, &c… &c… She also seems to enjoy posting obscene photos that don’t have any apparent relationship to the argument she’s making. Even in the absence of any other flaws, this ought to rule her out as a serious source, and you should be ashamed to link to such a source. However, even if we ignore that, there are plenty of other reasons not to use her as a source. First, though the “Frequently Told Lies” post that you linked to does include a ton of links, almost all of them simply go to other posts on the same blog, rather than to outside sources which would allow anyone to verify her claims. When she does quote outside sources, she blatantly lies about what they say. For example, you quoted her sentence “Norwegian studies demonstrate that their version of the law has increased sex trafficking and the number of prostitutes”; on her blog, the words “the number of prostitutes” is linked to [this post](http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2012/06/30/that-was-the-week-that-was-26/#course), which in turn links to [this article](http://www.thelocal.no/20120625/sex-buyer-ban-hasnt-had-desired-effect), which says: “Earlier, in 2009, when the new law targeting sex buyers was first introduced, half of the capital’s streetwalkers disappeared.” So the source article says the exact opposite of what The Honest Courtesan want us to believe it says. Seems like “The Dishonest Courtesan” would be a better title for her blog, wouldn’t you say? > [@Evil Captor](#): > > Wrong. > > Also wrong. > > Here’s the straight dope on these topics: Frequently told lies. (Not saying you are lying, I believe you have been misled by the lies being debunked in the source I’m quoting). Ignorance fought! If you want to brag like this, you should probably find a serious source first. I’ll continue believing that criminalizing the purchase of sex reduces the amount of prostitution and reduces human trafficking and pimping, as well as crime generally, because that’s what the data show. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/50 "2014-01-30T16:12:08Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > I’m sure legalized prostitution has the potential to lead to more sex slavery, abuse of prostitutes etc., but the solution to that would seem to be to regulate it very heavily. Have a police presence in brothels, routine and stringent ID checks, strict enforcement of the laws, etc. Doesn’t this make it sound like we’d be putting more resources into regulating prostitution than we do into keeping it illegal? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/51 "2014-01-30T16:18:13Z")
Hardly. Even the most stringent regulation is cheaper than criminal law enforcement. We spend about $25 billion a year on illicit drug enforcement at the federal level alone, but the FDA’s entire budget is just $5 billion. That includes food regulation in addition to drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/52 "2014-01-30T16:29:15Z")
Maintaining prisons is pretty damn expensive, from what I’m told. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/53 "2014-01-30T16:32:28Z")
**Really Not** I rather doubt that the Supreme Court will get involved with prostitution, polygamy or incest, though I’m not a lawyer. Prostitution is commerce, which states have a right to regulate, and there are arguably legitimate state interests in forbidding incest and discouraging polygamy. (Polygamy is legal now, in a sense: you can live with multiple women as much as you choose, as long as you don’t call them wives). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/54 "2014-01-30T16:40:33Z")
States have a right to _regulate_ everything. It’s part of their plenary power. That is not the same as the right to _ban_ things. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/55 "2014-01-30T16:48:06Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Maintaining prisons is pretty damn expensive, from what I’m told. Unless you think we’ll no longer have to maintain prisons if we legalize prostitution, this isn’t much of an argument. Maybe I was imagining a more involved regulatory system than you were or maybe I’m wrong about how much these kinds of regulations would cost. But one of the chief arguments in the marijuana debate, for instance, is that prosecuting and locking up marijuana users is a huge waste of money. That’s solved pretty easily if you allow people to have it and smoke it. So I’m asking if that’s also the case with legalized prostitution if prosecutions and arrests are replaced with “very heavy” regulations that are supposed to stop human trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/56 "2014-01-30T16:50:15Z")
He was talking about maintaining prisons to house drug offenders - and pretty much everyone agrees we’d have far fewer people in prison if marijuana was decriminalized. ---
**Author:** ![LibrarySpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f9ae1b/32.png) [@LibrarySpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LibrarySpy)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/58 "2014-01-30T17:09:43Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > Cite, please? Sounds good. RadioLab’s story [Bliss](http://www.radiolab.org/story/257189-bliss/) covers new research on LSD being done and the completely stupid reasons why it was suspended in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/59 "2014-01-30T17:10:50Z")
> [@Bazooka\_7](#): > > All I know is weed is for losers a 12 gauge shotgun for any fag who puts his hands on my kids,in 1967 in Australia a faggot priest raped my young 9 yr old sister,a morphine addict,he stole her supply of heroin which she picked up from the chemist for mum,who had been wounded in korea,became a smack freak but that was ok,in 1976 after I got out of the service got him and another fag on Xmas Eve,Merry Xmas motherfucker dropped them with 2 M60s,finished them off with an axe Judge said cockroach destruction ordered me released my guns returned to me and the cops to pay me 40,000 compensation took 6 cops to arrest me. Church had to pay 400,000 to sis too,fukin pedos. Reported for… either plagiarizing a really weird country song or hate speech. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/60 "2014-01-30T17:12:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Reported for… either plagiarizing a really weird country song or hate speech. Banned for either or both. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046/61 "2014-01-30T20:55:39Z")
> [@Iggy](#): > > Hmmm. a blog by a courtesan or a peer reviewed study. Which source would I tend to give more credence to? First of all, congratulations on the sleazy ad hominem attack on Maggie McNeil (The Honest Courtesan blogger) by noting she’s a prostitute. Of course, being in a profession is generally considered to confer inside knowledge of the topic, but this scumbag tactic is used so often that she’s [written a post about it.](http://maggiemcneill.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/ad-scortum/) > [@](#): > > I’m going with the [peer reviewed study](http://www.lse.ac.uk/geographyAndEnvironment/whosWho/profiles/neumayer/pdf/Article-for-World-Development-_prostitution_-anonymous-REVISED.pdf) (PDF link) which concluded: > > Their study notes that legalizing prostitution can tend to make it easier to recruit local women into the sex work industry and thus, in theory, reduce demand for trafficked sex workers. However, by legalizing prostitution the overall prostitution market in the country grows theoretically increasing the demand for more persons being trafficked. The researchers found that the statistically significant net result of those competing ideas is more persons being trafficked into countries with legalized prostitution. What a shame your peer-reviewed study has some very poor reviews and some methodological issues. Particularly, they kinda made up their numbers about how many trafficking cases there were in Germany, ignoring the official figures, and they were very sloppy with their terminology. [Here’s a debunking](http://www.lauraagustin.com/does-legalised-prostitution-increase-trafficking-who-knows-without-real-data) by Dr. Laura Augustin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ssm-and-marijuana-are-legal-kind-of-whats-next/680046.md?page=4)