# St Crispin's Day face-off: Olivier versus Branagh ! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 25, 2015, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741 "2015-10-25T17:31:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/41 "2015-10-27T03:55:54Z")
What if we add [Richard Burton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU7NrnLsr5g) to the mix? Less than ten years out from Olivier, and already feels much more modern, more like Brannagh. Brannagh is unquestionably the superior director, although he does have the advantage of forty five years in advances in film technology and technique. Olivier does the speech in one take, which is nice, but the framing is unimaginative. Olivier puts himself at the dead center, and the camera just has to keep pulling back until he gets to the cart. The final shot over the helmeted heads of the soldiers, with the tents in the back, was quite good - it looked like a Bruegel painting. What struck me most about the performances was how aloof Olivier comes across. In Brannagh’s version, you really feel that he’s down in the mud with his soldiers. When he calls them brothers, it’s not just something he means, it’s something he’s earned. He’s got no horses. He’s got no fancy plate armor. It’s himself, a chain shirt, and a sword against the French horde - just like the lowborn farmer standing next to him. Olivier, in his very shiny pants, is very much the King. Olivier is lecturing where Brannagh was commiserating. A big part of this is the way the army is completely silent throughout almost the whole scene. There’s no murmurs of agreement, or shouts of support. No fist pumps or upheld cigarette lighters. They’re watching him… like he’s an actor on a stage. It feels very much like, “Everyone, shut up! Olivier’s going to do the St. Crispin’s Day speech!” In particular, there’s the bit where he says he’ll let anyone leave if they want, then pauses for a couple of seconds, before saying to some guy, “This day is called the Feast of Crispian.” He tells this “ragged” band that he’ll give them money and let them walk away from the seemingly hopeless battle in front of them, then stops talking for several seconds, and not one guy goes, “Yay!”? Well, of course not: they’d read the play, they knew there was more speech coming. All that being said, I’m not sure it’s necessarily a flaw in Olivier’s Henry, so much as a different (and, likely more accurate) interpretation. Olivier’s Henry is very much a monarch, even at his chummiest. Band of brothers, sure, but let’s be real, here: at the end of the day, I’m King of England, and you’re covered with pig shit professionally. There were strong class barriers in Olivier’s day, much stronger in both Shakespeare’s and Henry’s respective days. Olivier’s Henry is showing virtue by condescending to speak to his soldiers at all, while still maintaining the class distinctions between him and his soldiers. This appeal to class sensibilities was still a going thing as late as 1944. But by '89, this had been replaced by a more populist appeal, where the King is as muddy and haggard and desperate as the lowest baggage boy, and where the battlefield forges - however temporarily - a genuine bond of equality between king and peasant. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/42 "2015-10-27T13:48:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > What if we add [Richard Burton](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TU7NrnLsr5g) to the mix? Less than ten years out from Olivier, and already feels much more modern, more like Brannagh. > > Brannagh is unquestionably the superior director, although he does have the advantage of forty five years in advances in film technology and technique. Olivier does the speech in one take, which is nice, but the framing is unimaginative. Olivier puts himself at the dead center, and the camera just has to keep pulling back until he gets to the cart. The final shot over the helmeted heads of the soldiers, with the tents in the back, was quite good - it looked like a Bruegel painting. > > What struck me most about the performances was how aloof Olivier comes across. In Brannagh’s version, you really feel that he’s down in the mud with his soldiers. When he calls them brothers, it’s not just something he means, it’s something he’s earned. He’s got no horses. He’s got no fancy plate armor. It’s himself, a chain shirt, and a sword against the French horde - just like the lowborn farmer standing next to him. > > Olivier, in his very shiny pants, is very much the King. Olivier is lecturing where Brannagh was commiserating. A big part of this is the way the army is completely silent throughout almost the whole scene. There’s no murmurs of agreement, or shouts of support. No fist pumps or upheld cigarette lighters. They’re watching him… like he’s an actor on a stage. It feels very much like, “Everyone, shut up! Olivier’s going to do the St. Crispin’s Day speech!” In particular, there’s the bit where he says he’ll let anyone leave if they want, then pauses for a couple of seconds, before saying to some guy, “This day is called the Feast of Crispian.” He tells this “ragged” band that he’ll give them money and let them walk away from the seemingly hopeless battle in front of them, then stops talking for several seconds, and not one guy goes, “Yay!”? Well, of course not: they’d read the play, they knew there was more speech coming. > > All that being said, I’m not sure it’s necessarily a flaw in Olivier’s Henry, so much as a different (and, likely more accurate) interpretation. Olivier’s Henry is very much a monarch, even at his chummiest. Band of brothers, sure, but let’s be real, here: at the end of the day, I’m King of England, and you’re covered with pig shit professionally. There were strong class barriers in Olivier’s day, much stronger in both Shakespeare’s and Henry’s respective days. Olivier’s Henry is showing virtue by condescending to speak to his soldiers at all, while still maintaining the class distinctions between him and his soldiers. This appeal to class sensibilities was still a going thing as late as 1944. But by '89, this had been replaced by a more populist appeal, where the King is as muddy and haggard and desperate as the lowest baggage boy, and where the battlefield forges - however temporarily - a genuine bond of equality between king and peasant. Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/43 "2015-10-27T13:56:32Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > I think he looks like _Psycho_’s Anthony Perkins. First time I saw the film I thought that’s who it was. > > I thought for sure this was going to be [Bill Pullman’s anemic attempt from _Independence Day_.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QoLywiaM6PA) > I don’t think its specifically Olivier’s directing, it’s merely how Shakespeare was done on film until more recent times. The first generation of film actors were all 100% from the stage (previously the only kind of acting there was). And acting in films was scoffed at by professional actors in the early days as not being real acting, but as being just a gimmick. Same thing would happen with film vs TV and network TV vs cable and now cable vs Netflix etc. > > Anyway, any stage actors worth their salt have performed lots of Shakespeare, it’s simply always part of how acting is learned. So needless to say, among professional actors Shakespeare is sacrosanct. Combine that with the notions that movies were viewed as inferior to the stage, and that by the 20th century Shakespeare was viewed as definitely **not** for the masses but for the upper crust, and what you get is films like Olivier’s. > > IOW putting any of Shakespeare’s plays onto film\* at all \*was viewed as being crass and inappropriate. He did not write his plays in the language of film (master shot, medium shot, close up, reaction shots, A/B roll, or editing of any kind). So any Shakespearean movies that _were_ made were shot essentially as just a filmed stage play. Film-type realism in every aspect (acting, lighting, sets etc.) was deliberately avoided, even in expensive productions. > > For me, this is something that makes Branagh’s _Henry V_ even more amazing. He does integrate both modern film-making techniques as well as realistic, ‘method’-type acting with the Elizabethan dialog and stories. And what he creates is a faithful adaptation of Shakespeare for modern cinema. Come to think of it Olivier really wasn’t that far removed from the Sir Henry Irving era of acting. Speaking of Irving, here’s a recording of Irving reciting some Richard III from 1898. It’s of dubious quality. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z4gXiNKR4s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z4gXiNKR4s) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/44 "2015-10-27T17:15:48Z")
President Kennedy loved the St. Crispin’s Day speech, and Basil Rathbone once gave it at a White House party. William Manchester later wrote that JFK leaned over afterwards, grabbed his arm and said, “Wasn’t that _great_?” [http://www.shakespeareinamericanlife.org/identity/politicians/presidents/pick/kennedy.cfm](http://www.shakespeareinamericanlife.org/identity/politicians/presidents/pick/kennedy.cfm) ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/45 "2015-10-27T17:19:14Z")
Olivier, for one simple reason: As fantastic as Patrick Doyle’s score is, Branagh uses it as a crutch in this scene, pumping up the emotion that he doesn’t trust being able to create all by himself. Olivier had no such insecurities. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2015, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741/46 "2015-10-29T00:30:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Wow. What a moment. That’s where I’d be tempted to say “It shall to the barber’s with your beard! He’s for a jig, or a tale of bawdry…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-crispins-day-face-off-olivier-versus-branagh/735741.md?page=2)