# St. Januarius, Miracles, and the Proof of God. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 20, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639 "2018-09-20T16:27:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/61 "2018-09-20T20:47:24Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > It doesn’t. There are bad people in the Church, but there are also saints. Same as other sects. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/62 "2018-09-20T20:48:44Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > No, it was an anecdote. No, it wasn’t. it was a vague and unsubstantiated reason to pick that sect over others. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/63 "2018-09-20T20:49:53Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And you believe that the oral tradition that passed down those stories for up to hundreds of years before anyone bothered to write them down are 100% accurate to their origin? Your assertion is false. Most scholars agree that the gospel accounts were written in the 1st century. Whether they are 100% accurate to their origin is irrelevant. I don’t worship a book, I worship Jesus. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/64 "2018-09-20T20:51:20Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > No, it wasn’t. > it was a vague and unsubstantiated reason to pick that sect over others. Did you miss Post #52? ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/65 "2018-09-20T20:53:00Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Your assertion is false. Most scholars agree that the gospel accounts were written in the 1st century. Whether they are 100% accurate to their origin is irrelevant. I don’t worship a book, I worship Jesus. And where do you get your information about Jesus? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/66 "2018-09-20T20:53:57Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And where do you get your information about Jesus? Primarily from the Catholic Church. But the information isn’t nearly as important as Jesus himself, who is physically present at every Catholic mass under the appearance of bread and wine. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/67 "2018-09-20T20:54:38Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Primarily from the Catholic Church. Who get their information from…? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/68 "2018-09-20T20:56:17Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Who get their information from…? Apostolic Tradition, of which Scripture is a part. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/69 "2018-09-20T20:57:22Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Did you miss Post #52? So the Catholic church’s interpretation of those anecdotes convinced you to switch religions? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/70 "2018-09-20T20:58:29Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Apostolic Tradition, of which Scripture is a part. Again, this is true for other sects. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/71 "2018-09-20T20:59:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So the Catholic church’s interpretation of those anecdotes convinced you to switch religions? I guess you could say that. The Catholic interpretation of those “anecdotes” is the only logical one. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/72 "2018-09-20T20:59:32Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > Apostolic Tradition, of which Scripture is a part. And what is the definition of “Scripture”? ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/73 "2018-09-20T21:01:40Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > And what is the definition of “Scripture”? Well I don’t have my Catechism handy, but it’s the 73 books that make up the Holy Bible, defined at various times by the Catholic Church, notably at the Council of Carthage in the 4th century. ---
**Author:** ![Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/regallag_the_axe/32/445_2.png) [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Regallag_The_Axe)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/74 "2018-09-20T21:04:37Z")
It would take more than a “miracle” to convince me to convert to a religion, and I’ll tell you why. A “miracle” is an event that cannot be explained by those who witness it. Something that I cannot explain is just that. There are any number of possible explanations, so rather than choosing one I simply say, “I don’t know.” ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/75 "2018-09-20T21:06:32Z")
> [@Regallag\_The\_Axe](#): > > It would take more than a “miracle” to convince me to convert to a religion, and I’ll tell you why. A “miracle” is an event that cannot be explained by those who witness it. Something that I cannot explain is just that. There are any number of possible explanations, so rather than choosing one I simply say, “I don’t know.” That is a very reasonable and rational response. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/76 "2018-09-20T21:11:26Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > That is a very reasonable and rational response. You might even say it was…logical. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/77 "2018-09-20T21:27:17Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Who were these people? Avelino de Almeida, a reporter for _O Seculo_, wrote a series of articles about[his experiences at Fatima.](https://odogmadafe.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/13-de-outubro-foi-ha-99-anos/) His conclusion was that he saw something strange and inexplicable. There were others who wrote eyewitness accounts, but de Almeida is generally considered to be the least religious and most skeptical of the contemporary witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/78 "2018-09-20T21:31:51Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Avelino de Almeida, a reporter for _O Seculo_, wrote a series of articles about[his experiences at Fatima.](https://odogmadafe.wordpress.com/2016/10/13/13-de-outubro-foi-ha-99-anos/) His conclusion was that he saw something strange and inexplicable. > > There were others who wrote eyewitness accounts, but de Almeida is generally considered to be the least religious and most skeptical of the contemporary witnesses. The claim was that he, and an unnamed scientist, converted. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/79 "2018-09-20T21:49:41Z")
> [@EscAlaMike](#): > > The Catholic interpretation of those “anecdotes” is the only logical one. I have to admit-of all the Catholics I have spoken to over the years, including the ones that post on this board, you are the first I’ve heard say anything like this. ---
**Author:** ![EscAlaMike](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/escalamike/32/4177_2.png) [@EscAlaMike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EscAlaMike)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639/80 "2018-09-20T21:56:16Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I have to admit-of all the Catholics I have spoken to over the years, including the ones that post on this board, you are the first I’ve heard say anything like this. Well damn, why be Catholic if you don’t believe it? It’s not exactly the kind of organization I can say I’m proud to be a part of. But as messed up as it is, its claims are true, and it’s where Jesus is. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-januarius-miracles-and-the-proof-of-god/821639.md?page=5)