# St. Louis Dopers, do you recognize this building? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019 "2014-06-30T17:32:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/1 "2014-06-30T17:32:30Z")
I came across an old photo of my mother which I _think_ was taken in St Louis. (I’m only basing that on the Budweiser wagon in the photo). I think it would be neat if anyone recognized a [building in the photo](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Pt__kvPhUD8/U7GdU1LWKDI/AAAAAAAANuQ/p_MryyfJpJY/s512/image-21.jpg) so I could determine where my mother was when this photo was taken. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/2 "2014-06-30T22:39:16Z")
Any idea what year it was taken? ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/3 "2014-06-30T22:57:30Z")
Still has rail car tracks; the cars suggest late 40’s early 50’s. Not enough background for me to pick anything out, though. But given the age, those buildings may be gone, in horrible disrepair (and unrecognizeable), or have been renovated (and therefore unrecognizeable). ---
**Author:** ![Shoeless](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shoeless/32/7099_2.png) [@Shoeless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shoeless)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2014, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/4 "2014-06-30T23:04:21Z")
My first guess was maybe the Soldiers Memorial downtown, but after looking it up on Wikipedia I don’t think that’s it. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/5 "2014-07-01T00:51:05Z")
Possibly the Kiel Opera House. The rail make me think that it is taken on Market Street ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/6 "2014-07-01T00:57:26Z")
It’s not Soldiers Memorial. I don’t think it’s Market Street, as the streetcars had already stopped running there. My wild-assed guess would be downtown, either on Olive, Washington or Broadway. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/7 "2014-07-01T01:02:32Z")
This is a pretty cool site with lots of historic St. Louis buildings. If it’s anywhere it is here. [www.builtstlouis.net/arch.html](http://www.builtstlouis.net/arch.html) ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/8 "2014-07-01T01:21:04Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > It’s not Soldiers Memorial. I don’t think it’s Market Street, as the streetcars had already stopped running there. My wild-assed guess would be downtown, either on Olive, Washington or Broadway. It’s a pretty wide looking street. Olive isn’t a wide street where you could take a picture like that until down by Grand Ave., but there isn’t any tall buildings like the one in the background. I still think it is Market, but I could be mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/9 "2014-07-01T01:41:14Z")
Also, streetcars ran through the mid 60’s and tracks are still visible on streets by the wharf area around Soulard and the Brewery. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/10 "2014-07-01T02:16:51Z")
This could just as easily be located on Grand in the St. Louis University area, or even along Kingshighway in the Central West End. My husband thinks the building in the upper left hand corner could be the Missouri Pacific Building (where he worked downtown for many years), but isn’t completely sure. I would guess it’s some kind of parade or event, given the beer wagon and the soldiers in uniform. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/11 "2014-07-01T03:01:28Z")
> [@GythaOgg](#): > > My husband thinks the building in the upper left hand corner could be the Missouri Pacific Building (where he worked downtown for many years), but isn’t completely sure. > > I would guess it’s some kind of parade or event, given the beer wagon and the soldiers in uniform. Which would have to make the building they are standing in front of the Old Courthouse. I don’t think those are soldiers, but just the usual uniform the wagon Teamsters would wear. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/12 "2014-07-01T15:39:36Z")
The presence of the Clydesdales both simplifies and complicates the issue. Even in St. Louis, Anheuser-Busch didn’t bring out the horses _that_ often. A-B didn’t buy the Cardinals until 1953, so there was no reason for the team to be in Midtown until 1954 Opening Day. The Missouri Pacific Building (now known as [Park Pacific](http://www.emporis.com/building/park-pacific-st-louis-mo-usa)) has, to my knowledge, always been white. The high-rise at the top left seems to be the classic St. Louis red brick. Here’s a [1960’s photo](http://www.nextstopstl.org/10292/flashback-friday-4/)looking south and west from 12th and Olive. The ornate facade of the nearer building makes me think of a bank. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/13 "2014-07-01T18:16:06Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > Any idea what year it was taken? Wow, I actually thought I added this to the OP. The nearest I can get is late 50s. I suspect around 1955-1958. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/14 "2014-07-01T18:19:25Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > It’s not Soldiers Memorial. I don’t think it’s Market Street, as the streetcars had already stopped running there. My wild-assed guess would be downtown, either on Olive, Washington or Broadway. Is that some type of metal guide track or something under the Clydesdales’ feet? ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/15 "2014-07-01T18:23:13Z")
1954 would be a good guess - that’s when Grant’s Farm opened. ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/16 "2014-07-01T18:38:57Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > Still has rail car tracks; the cars suggest late 40’s early 50’s. > > Not enough background for me to pick anything out, though. But given the age, those buildings may be gone, in horrible disrepair (and unrecognizeable), or have been renovated (and therefore unrecognizeable). Yeah, I know it’s a shot in the dark. I was recently reminiscing about my departed mom, and came across this picture. I wish I had another picture for a secondary reference; but alas… ☹ ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2014, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/17 "2014-07-01T18:49:02Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The Missouri Pacific Building (now known as Park Pacific) has, to my knowledge, always been white. The high-rise at the top left seems to be the classic St. Louis red brick. Here’s a 1960’s photo looking south and west from 12th and Olive. Which is different than what the link I provided up thread says about the Missouri Pacific Building. They have it at the corner of 7th and Market (Keiner Plaza) and demolished in the early 80s. I’m not sure which is right. [http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/buder.html](http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/buder.html) ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2014, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/18 "2014-07-02T22:23:03Z")
I was downtown this afternoon and drove past the Kiel Operahouse, it does not match the photo as I thought it might. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/19 "2014-07-03T01:39:31Z")
> [@Enright3](#): > > Wow, I actually thought I added this to the OP. > The nearest I can get is late 50s. I suspect around 1955-1958. If it’s 1955-58, then it could be a ceremony at Sportsmen’s Park (aka, the first Busch Stadium at Grand Ave. and Dodier.) Grand would still have had streetcar tracks at that time (I guess that’s a streetcar rail next to the Clydesdale’s hoof.) 1950’s Grand had streetscapes [like this.](http://www.studio801.com/Photo04Large%20modern.jpg) Here’s a 1955 aerial view of [Sportsmen’s Park](http://collections.mohistory.org/resourceMgr/146305.html). Grand is on the left. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2014, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-dopers-do-you-recognize-this-building/692019/20 "2014-07-03T02:34:04Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > Which is different than what the link I provided up thread says about the Missouri Pacific Building. They have it at the corner of 7th and Market (Keiner Plaza) and demolished in the early 80s. I’m not sure which is right. > > [http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/buder.html](http://www.builtstlouis.net/opos/buder.html) All I know is the Missouri Pacific building my husband worked in, located right across the street from the public library and close to the War Memorial, is still standing and known as the Park Pacific. It was used by the Union Pacific as offices until 2005 or so, when they centralized all their operations into a new office building in Omaha. St. Louis UP employees, many of whom were former MoPac personnel like my husband, were forced to move to Omaha to keep their jobs. Few of them were happy about this. (that’s an understatement!) It’s worth noting that at least one side of the building, where it butted up against another building (since torn down for a parking lot, and now a parking garage) was dark, plain brick for at least a few floors and not the pretty white seen in most views on the net. The building has been cleaned up substantially - it was a dark, dirty grey for most of the time my husband worked there. As to the horses…I still think it’s a parade; the horses seem to be to be in ‘parade dress’ and gear for a public appearance and not being used for a delivery. They’re very spiffed up. The AB Clydesdales always have been more of a public appearance deal in this town than working horses.