# St. Louis fans you are not God's gift to baseball **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 23, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649 "2006-07-23T00:06:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/61 "2006-07-24T22:44:43Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I provided an anecdote that is supportive of the OPs argument. Maybe you should quit being a whiny pussy and suggest to Cardinals fans that they quit making asses out of themselves when they go to other stadiums. Uh, yeah. I sure do appear the one being a whiny pussy in this thread. Tell you what - if I ever see that behavior out of a Cardinals fan at other stadiums, I’ll tell them that. I never have, but what do I know - now we have two [2] anecdotes about assholish behavior from Cardinals fans. Surely there has never been a more damning preponderance of evidence in baseball history! > [@](#): > > But those experiences, and my impression of St. Louis, was shaped by interactions with fans as well as in general. Of course they “colored” my perception of the fans because they were my experiences with the fans. You can’t unring the bell. My brothers having beer dumped on them and getting chased from the stadium was a part of that. I do go back every year, and while nobody has wanted to fight me about my team preference during the week or so per year that I am there, it doesn’t mean that it never happened before. What happens when on one or two bad experiences occur to you in some other park? Do you put the entire City on a “list of the condemned”? Chicago: - Gave me the finger - Someone yelled “Hey, Wilson! Nice catch!” San Francisco - Booed Joe Randa - Spilled nacho on my back How very sad for you. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/62 "2006-07-24T22:58:02Z")
> [@Pixiesnix](#): > > Even as I’m writing this, I know nothing will change you or **Sequent** ’s minds. But I have to wonder…what is gained by hanging on to this hatred? And it is hatred, judging by the passion and persistence with which you denounce an entire populace. You’ve escaped that “shitstain” of a city…so why can’t you move on? Trust me, it’s not like it’s eating me up inside. **BobT** made an observation about it, so I shared my experiences. You might ask **Dooku** why he bothers to get so worked up about it in the opposite direction. Besides, I haven’t been able to “escape.” I married my high school sweetheart, and have to go back annually to visit the in-laws. Of course, like all places, St. Louis isn’t all bad. I got a good education, I had very good friends, some of whom I still keep in touch with today. And of course, I took away from St. Louis the best part about it. (My wife, if that isn’t clear from the above.) But having said that, St. Louis is pretty bad, and if you ask me about it, I’m going to tell you why. My own belief about the basic problem is that St. Louisans are so insecure and defensive that they don’t actually want to see where the problems are and make changes. They’ll just try to tell you how they are the best and no “anecdotes” are going to influence them otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2006, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/63 "2006-07-24T23:28:17Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Trust me, it’s not like it’s eating me up inside. **BobT** made an observation about it, so I shared my experiences. You might ask **Dooku** why he bothers to get so worked up about it in the opposite direction. Nope, not worked up. Just amazed that you are content to damn an entire fan base based on one or two incidents from over twenty years ago. > [@](#): > > They’ll just try to tell you how they are the best Show me where, in this thread or the previous one I linked to, where I said I think Cards fans are the best. [/quote] and no “anecdotes” are going to influence them otherwise. [/QUOTE] The irony! It burns! Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/64 "2006-07-25T00:10:27Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > Nope, not worked up. Just amazed that you are content to damn an entire fan base based on one or two incidents from over twenty years ago. You dumb as a box of rocks! A lifetime of incidents you dimwit, and the “Kendall sucks” guy was just two or three years ago. If St. Louisans would quit being cunts, I might have some time to rethink things. But folks like you just have to keep doing shit to prove me right. But really, if it was only one or two incidents 20 years ago, how many times and how recently do your relatives have to get beer dumped on them or get chased from the ballpark to have justification in thinking that there’s something wrong with St. Louisans? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/65 "2006-07-25T00:33:36Z")
How many times and how recently do your relatives have to get into fender-benders on the freeway with Mexicans/Asians/blacks/Jews/Poles/Filipinos/Americans/Canadians to have justification in thinking that there’s something wrong with them? Oh…er…wait… ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/66 "2006-07-25T00:48:41Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > You dumb as a box of rocks! What’s with the Ebonics? > [@](#): > > A lifetime of incidents you dimwit, and the “Kendall sucks” guy was just two or three years ago. If St. Louisans would quit being cunts, I might have some time to rethink things. But folks like you just have to keep doing shit to prove me right. Well earlier in this very thread you admitted to having a limited sample, and now you’re saying it’s a lifetime. Which is it? Why bring up the “Kendall sucks” guy over and over again if you have a lifetime of incidents from which to choose? Why am I a cunt for pointing out that it’s stupid for you to condemn all fans based on a few bad apples? Why not respond to other posters that, like me, have seen no such type of behavior you describe? Were we all just incredibly lucky? Maybe you just engender this kind of behavior. It wouldn’t surprise me at this point. > [@](#): > > But really, if it was only one or two incidents 20 years ago, how many times and how recently do your relatives have to get beer dumped on them or get chased from the ballpark to have justification in thinking that there’s something wrong with St. Louisans? There’s no amount of times that would happen in which I would feel justified in thinking there’s something wrong with ALL Cards fans, let alone ALL St. Louisans. That’s kinda been my point here - you know, that’s it’s beyond silly for you to write us all off based on these few bad experiences. I mean really, I have _never_ seen anyone chased from Busch Stadium. Have you seen other such chasings directed at other people in this lifetime of incidents at Cards games? At other stadiums? I submit that getting chased from a ballpark is extremely unusual. I may have seen someone accidentally spill a beer, probably even on me, but I didn’t care enough to etch the event in my mind permanently. It’s just baseball, and a few fans treating you poorly is no reason to condemn all of them, everywhere. Jesus, have you been to Yankee Stadium? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/67 "2006-07-25T01:01:27Z")
> [@Dooku](#): > > …snip… > I may have seen someone accidentally spill a beer, probably even on me, but I didn’t care enough to etch the event in my mind permanently. It’s just baseball, and a few fans treating you poorly is no reason to condemn all of them, everywhere. Jesus, have you been to Yankee Stadium? Hey wait a minute, why single us out. Everyone knows Philly fans are the worse. We share a 3-way tie with Fenway & Shea for Second Most Obnoxious Fans and likelihood for a fight to break out. We might be loosing our edge anyway, no Beer in the Bleachers and too many Wall Street Fans. The Stadium is not close to being as nasty and dangerous as it was before 1998. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/68 "2006-07-25T01:13:40Z")
That was because we came in there and cleaned it up for you in '98. I’m still waiting for my check, Jim. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/69 "2006-07-25T01:21:50Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > That was because we came in there and cleaned it up for you in '98. I’m still waiting for my check, Jim. Oh wow, A Padre fan, I went to few games when I lived in SanDog. Let me describe mid-80s Padres fans. a) Not a lot would show up to games b) They had to put up with watching their team play in a football stadium c) Extremely easy going polite fans d) Were not what you would call rabid, die-hard or particularly knowledgeable. e) Often looked slight bored or anxious, we\* believed it was Beach Separation Anxiety Disorder. f) Never any fighting or cat calling unless you had an obnoxious North Eastern baseball fan or Chicago Fan at the game. Jim {The Check is in the Mail, and yes that silly, ridiculous, nearly perfect year is when all the corporations bought up all the field level seats at the Stadium} - Myself, a Cub fan and a Cardinal Fan ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/70 "2006-07-25T01:39:09Z")
You lived here? No way! Where? We played in that football stadium for quite a while after the mid-80s, too. Do you remember a coupla Yankees games down there? 😃 The fans have been getting more die-hard, rabid and knowledgeable since 1998, but there are still lots of people who go to the games to get drunk now that we have a downtown stadium. (Beautiful park, BTW. Ever been?) Beach Separation Anxiety Disorder is a serious condition, incredibly lethal for basketball teams (who wants to be indoors?). Hockey has done surprisingly well over the years, considering, but since around 2001 people have cared even less about it and our minor-league team just folded. And who knows where the Chargers will end up–but that’s nothing to do with the fans, who actually are rabid and knowledgeable here (we have to be, to counter all the Raiders fans in town). An interesting thing about San Diego football fanhood, though, is that we had this 1998-2003 stretch where everybody rooted for the Broncos. Kind of like disco–everyone who was involved is pretty embarrassed about it now and they try to hide being an bandwagon fan by changing the subject or getting radically anti-Broncos whenever the subject of Denver’s football team comes up. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/71 "2006-07-25T02:04:16Z")
> [@fetus](#): > > You lived here? No way! Where? > > We played in that football stadium for quite a while after the mid-80s, too. Do you remember a coupla Yankees games down there? 😃 > > The fans have been getting more die-hard, rabid and knowledgeable since 1998, but there are still lots of people who go to the games to get drunk now that we have a downtown stadium. (Beautiful park, BTW. Ever been?) > > Beach Separation Anxiety Disorder is a serious condition, incredibly lethal for basketball teams (who wants to be indoors?). Hockey has done surprisingly well over the years, considering, but since around 2001 people have cared even less about it and our minor-league team just folded. And who knows where the Chargers will end up–but that’s nothing to do with the fans, who actually are rabid and knowledgeable here (we have to be, to counter all the Raiders fans in town). An interesting thing about San Diego football fanhood, though, is that we had this 1998-2003 stretch where everybody rooted for the Broncos. Kind of like disco–everyone who was involved is pretty embarrassed about it now and they try to hide being an bandwagon fan by changing the subject or getting radically anti-Broncos whenever the subject of Denver’s football team comes up. I lived in Coronado (on an Aircraft Carrier 😉 ) & San Ysidro near the border. I would love to get to the new stadium. I left San Diego in '89 and I was back once in '99. It was a poor baseball town, good Football town when I was there. I went to a lot of concerts at the Sports Arena & SDSU. Jim ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/72 "2006-07-25T02:15:32Z")
The Sports Arena is now the iPayOne Center since about 2004 (mortgage company or something bought naming rights) and it’s not even close to the concert venue it once was. I don’t think anyone even tours there anymore except shows for kids and things like that. However, there’s a place within walking distance of the iPayOne Center called SOMA that has a lot of great rock acts and is generally pretty cheap. San Diego State’s Open Air Theatre is still a great concert venue; the only professional concert I’ve ever seen in my life was there (Jimmy Eat World, 2002, as embarrassing as that is looking back on it) and it’s a cool intimate setting. Most of the big-name concerts are downtown now, though. Definitely get down to Petco Park one of these days, maybe we can even throw a SoCal Dopefest! ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/73 "2006-07-25T03:33:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\*Hentor \*\* wrote: > Trust me, it’s not like it’s eating me up inside. BobT made an observation about it, so I shared my experiences. You might ask Dooku why he bothers to get so worked up about it in the opposite direction. If this were the first time you shared your experiences, it wouldn’t be such an issue. But you seem to have a fixation on the city and all those who love it. That’s why it seems to be hatred. As for why **Dooku** would defend the citizens of the city, think about it. You’re insulting him, his family, his friends, the people he loves. Come to mention it, you’re insulting me, my family, and my friends as well. So why _wouldn’t_ we get worked up about it? I think we’re being pretty reasonable about the whole thing. > [@](#): > > But having said that, St. Louis is pretty bad, and if you ask me about it, I’m going to tell you why. But that’s the thing…nobody asked you. You jumped into the thread, eager to smear an entire population of people. It’s odd, to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/74 "2006-07-25T06:38:33Z")
**What Exit?** – How do you pull off being both a Cardinal and Cubs fan? ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/75 "2006-07-25T09:15:53Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Not having grown up in the US, i’m still catching up on years of missed baseball lore and legend. I grew up here, and I am still mystified why people get so damned worked up about sports. Some dumbasses in Oakland have a tendency to riot whether the Raiders win or lose a big game, and they do it distressingly close to my house. I actually live in San Leandro, but it’s close enough to the Coliseum that I can see the glow from the stadium lights. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/76 "2006-07-25T11:32:58Z")
> [@Pixiesnix](#): > > But that’s the thing…nobody asked you. You jumped into the thread, eager to smear an entire population of people. It’s odd, to say the least. I’m really perplexed by this attitude. I _think_ it’s nothing more than an attempt to undermine the relevance of my experiences to the thread at hand. However, if it isn’t, please take a spin around the boards and let me know how often you see a follow up to an OP that is basically along the lines of “Yes. I agree with the OP and this is why.” What you’re saying is that I shot my load the one time, and any time in the future that someone else brings up the topic, I better stay mum or I’ll look like I have a fixation. A fixation that, according to **Dooku’s** dates, I might go two years without indulging. Okay, never mind. Strike my comments, and then you can just tell **BobT** that he had the unfortunate experience of running into the only offensive Cardinal fan. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/77 "2006-07-25T12:18:47Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > **What Exit?** – How do you pull off being both a Cardinal and Cubs fan? I went to the games with 2 others. One a Cub Fan and one a Cardinal fan. The only thing they ageed on was they both hated the Yankees. 😉 Jim ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/78 "2006-07-25T14:13:49Z")
What is “baseball”? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/79 "2006-07-25T14:37:15Z")
> [@Mellivora capensis](#): > > What is “baseball”? Rounders taken to its most entertaining possible level and Highest skill. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649/80 "2006-07-25T16:25:32Z")
> [@What Exit?](#): > > Rounders taken to its most entertaining possible level and Highest skill. 😉 Hehehehe… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-fans-you-are-not-gods-gift-to-baseball/365649.md?page=5)