# St. Louis pizza is good! (Relatedly, TV critic Alan Sepinwall is a jerk.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733 "2017-11-16T00:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/81 "2017-11-18T03:33:04Z")
Gooey buttercake is indeed dangerously good. EvPsych folks would probably call it a spandrel, like cheesecake. > [@Doug\_K](#): > > I live firmly in the midwest, and this is decidedly **not** a general midwest style. Square cut pizza is generally only seen in school cafeterias, and is universally scorned by pizza aficionados. So you’re saying if your favorite pizza place crosscut a perfectly made pie, it would turn the whole thing into garbage? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/82 "2017-11-18T03:37:08Z")
**pulykamell @78:** The Taylor Street places I ordered from — also the Humboldt Park places where my daughter lives now — were cheese-crazy, as well as piling on more sausage/pepperoni/mushrooms/peppers/whatever than I’ve ever seen in New York. Not that I’m complaining. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/83 "2017-11-18T03:43:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ooo. That sounds pretty tasty, and a style I had never heard of. What I think of “grandma” pizza is more like an Italian sheet pan pizza with a fairly medium-to-thick dough, but thinner than Neapolitan? I am intrigued. Do you have pictures of this style that I can salaciously ogle? [https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+nonna+pizza&rlz=1C9BKJA\_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=mniv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizuYeemcfXAhUIQiYKHYBND0kQ\_AUIFCgD&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=su4Q6l-B3TQhsM:](https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+nonna+pizza&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=mniv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizuYeemcfXAhUIQiYKHYBND0kQ_AUIFCgD&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=su4Q6l-B3TQhsM:) Unfortunately, the Neapolitan slice here looks almost as delicious as the Nonna slice. For more yumminess, just google image “Nonna slice” for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/84 "2017-11-18T03:46:58Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > **pulykamell @78:** The Taylor Street places I ordered from — also the Humboldt Park places where my daughter lives now — were cheese-crazy, as well as piling on more sausage/pepperoni/mushrooms/peppers/whatever than I’ve ever seen in New York. Not that I’m complaining. Yeah, I tend to dislike the places that go too crazy with the cheese. I don’t like it coming off my pizza in one giant sheet, or such that when I eat it, I end up with a giant cheese ball forming in my mouth. Villa Nova is pretty judicious, in my opinion, with their cheese. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/85 "2017-11-18T03:50:39Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > [new york city nonna pizza - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+nonna+pizza&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=mniv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizuYeemcfXAhUIQiYKHYBND0kQ_AUIFCgD&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=su4Q6l-B3TQhsM:) > > Unfortunately, the Neapolitan slice here looks almost as delicious as the Nonna slice. For more yumminess, just google image “Nonna slice” for yourself. Those both look too tomatoey. I usually order light sauce, or straight up white pizza. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/86 "2017-11-18T03:54:42Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > [new york city nonna pizza - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=new+york+city+nonna+pizza&rlz=1C9BKJA_enUS620US620&hl=en-US&prmd=mniv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizuYeemcfXAhUIQiYKHYBND0kQ_AUIFCgD&biw=1024&bih=653#imgrc=su4Q6l-B3TQhsM:) > > Unfortunately, the Neapolitan slice here looks almost as delicious as the Nonna slice. For more yumminess, just google image “Nonna slice” for yourself. Ah, I see [Serious Eats](http://slice.seriouseats.com/2008/01/a-list-of-regional-pizza-styles-slideshow.html) has a short run-down on it in its regional pizza style list (and _this_ is the list I should have linked to earlier, had I known it existed.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/87 "2017-11-18T03:55:45Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those both look too tomatoey. I usually order light sauce, or straight up white pizza. Too tomatoey? That looks like about half the tomato sauce that you get on your bog standard generic American pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/88 "2017-11-18T03:55:46Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those both look too tomatoey. I usually order light sauce, or straight up white pizza. Those two ARE particularly tomatoey, sorry. Google Image “NYC Nonna Pizza” for a better example. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/89 "2017-11-18T03:57:47Z")
Those two posts right in a row are a literal LOL. Sesly, **puly?** ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/90 "2017-11-18T04:00:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Provolone goes on, I don’t know. Cheesteaks, I guess. Mozzarella goes on pizza. What an impoverished and unimaginative cheese-life you have. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/91 "2017-11-18T04:00:57Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those two posts right in a row are a literal LOL. Sesly, **puly?** Yes. There’s like a splotch of sauce over the cheese. That does not look tomatoey at all to me. And where the cheese is, it does not look at all like there’s a lot of sauce, if any, under there. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/92 "2017-11-18T04:01:15Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Ah, I see [Serious Eats](http://slice.seriouseats.com/2008/01/a-list-of-regional-pizza-styles-slideshow.html) has a short run-down on it in its regional pizza style list (and _this_ is the list I should have linked to earlier, had I known it existed.) Holy Moses! Nice link, thank you! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/93 "2017-11-18T04:09:05Z")
I will say, provolone works fine on pizza, as do other cheeses, but they have their own characteristics in terms of how they blister and how melty/stringy they get, etc. The Detroit style place I like so much, Buddy’s, uses a mix of brick and white cheddar, and it’s great on their pizza. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/94 "2017-11-18T04:14:47Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > What an impoverished and unimaginative cheese-life you have. Not my fault people from St. Louis don’t know what pizza is. I agree with Sepinwall. I don’t have to try it to know it’s bad. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/95 "2017-11-18T04:20:07Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I’ve heard that St. Louis pizza is good, and I’m willing to give it a try. I’ve also heard they put some weird kind of cheese on it, that pizzamen in Italy or New Haven or New York or Chicago would crinkle their noses at. What’s up with that? I have to ask: _New Haven_?? (Presumably CT.) In the same breath as Italy, New York or Chicago and _Pizza_? What am I missing here? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/96 "2017-11-18T04:30:07Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I have to ask: > _New Haven_?? (Presumably CT.) In the same breath as Italy, New York or Chicago and _Pizza_? What am I missing here? Yes. It’s kind of legendary in pizza circles. I haven’t been yet, but it’s a bucket list item for me. Sally’s and Pepe’s. One day. One day. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/97 "2017-11-18T05:02:13Z")
Huh, I thought the “bucket list” pizza joint was Pizzeria Bedia, in Philly. [How Pizzeria Beddia in Philadelphia Makes America's Best Pizza - Bon Appétit Recipe | Bon Appétit](https://www.bonappetit.com/people/chefs/slideshow/pizzeria-beddia-photos) Imo’s made this “best pizza” list (and no, my search terms did not include their name or anything specific to them or St. Louis), which does also mention New Haven: [The Best Pizza In The Country](https://www.tastingtable.com/travel/national/best-pizza-america) ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_K](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5ac83/32.png) [@Doug\_K](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_K)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/98 "2017-11-18T05:07:42Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Just to check that I’m not crazy, I googled “Midwest style pizza” and the food gods on Serious Eats have [even identified it as a style](http://slice.seriouseats.com/2008/01/a-list-of-regional-pizza-styles-slideshow.html#show-85736), so that’s good enough for me. > > It’s pretty much a style that I’ve only seen indigenously in the Midwest (hence, “general Midwest” style, not specific to one Midwestern location), though not all Midwestern styles of pizza are of this type. Make sense? Based on the wording it sounds like the author has never even set foot in the heart of the midwest. “Variations, _I believe_, are found throughout the midwest”. I live in the midwest, I do most of my vacationing in the midwest, and I’ve eaten lots of pizza in much of the midwest. It’s not a general midwest style. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/99 "2017-11-18T05:11:17Z")
> [@Doug\_K](#): > > Based on the wording it sounds like the author has never even set foot in the heart of the midwest. “Variations, _I believe_, are found throughout the midwest”. > > I live in the midwest, I do most of my vacationing in the midwest, and I’ve eaten lots of pizza in much of the midwest. It’s not a general midwest style. Same here. I think you are misunderstanding me. If it makes you feel better, we can call it St. Louis-Wisconsin-parts of Illinois-parts of Indiana style. It a style that is pretty much exclusively found in the Midwest. Let’s call it Midwest tavern pizza, if you want. But it’s associated with this general region. It’s not the only style here. I’m just trying to be fucking fair here. Last time I called Chicago style thin crust pizza “Chicago style” (not on this board) I got shit because other Midwesterners bitched about it not being unique to Chicago, but being found generally throughout parts of the Midwest. Now I try to share the credit, and I get shit because it’s not fucking Midwest pizza. Jeezus I can’t win. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/100 "2017-11-18T05:19:33Z")
ETA: And from what I can find searching Google images, apparently pretty common in parts of Ohio, too, so you can expand the name to St. Louis-Wisconsin-parts of Illinois-parts of Indiana-parts of Ohio style. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733.md?page=6)