# St. Louis pizza is good! (Relatedly, TV critic Alan Sepinwall is a jerk.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 16, 2017, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733 "2017-11-16T00:46:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/101 "2017-11-18T05:43:39Z")
Anyhow, back to bitching about the way people cut pizza. Now, believe it or not, there’s even a _third_ way pizza is cut in certain spots in the Midwest. Now, we have our pie cut; we have our criss-cross square tavern cut. There is also the, I don’t even know what to call it, “strip cut”? You see this mostly in Quad-Cities style pizza (yes, that’s actually a style), [looking like this](http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110406-quad-cities-style-pizza.jpg), but I’ve also seen it in northwest Indiana and [Ohio](http://www.toledoblade.com/Peach-Weekender/2015/04/16/Old-school-Inky-s-never-goes-out-of-style.html). (Well, here in Chicago, too, but it’s only because the place is a Quad Cities style pizza place.) ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/102 "2017-11-18T08:10:16Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Not my fault people from St. Louis don’t know what pizza is. I agree with Sepinwall. I don’t have to try it to know it’s bad. At least we can still spot fucking arrogant pricks when we see them. Thanks god we still have that going for us in our pizza-deficient existence. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/103 "2017-11-18T11:21:55Z")
Er, in case it’s less than clear, I’m referring to Sepinwall in the previous post. :o ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/104 "2017-11-18T13:04:30Z")
> [@squeegee](#): > > I have to ask: > _New Haven_?? (Presumably CT.) In the same breath as Italy, New York or Chicago and _Pizza_? What am I missing here? I have a buddy who grew up there, and he says every pizza he’s had from anywhere else is a disappointment in comparison. He hasn’t been to Italy, but I think he’s including New York in the “disappointment” category. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/105 "2017-11-18T13:42:27Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Those both look too tomatoey. I usually order light sauce, or straight up white pizza. the pic resembles a Margherita-style to me. they’re not _covered_ entirely with cheese like the typical American pizza is; the ones I’ve had get an application of tomato sauce (may even be just roasted tomatoes) and a handful of slices of fresh mozzarella. [like so](https://search.chow.com/thumbnail/800/0/www.chowstatic.com/blog-media/2017/03/PizzettaMargherita-HomemadePizzaTips.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/106 "2017-11-18T13:47:39Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I will say, provolone works fine on pizza, as do other cheeses, but they have their own characteristics in terms of how they blister and how melty/stringy they get, etc. The Detroit style place I like so much, Buddy’s, uses a mix of brick and white cheddar, and it’s great on their pizza. if you’re ever in the metro Detroit area, hit up Cloverleaf in Eastpointe. it was opened by Gus Guerra after he sold off Buddy’s and hasn’t been chained to death. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/107 "2017-11-18T14:43:17Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > if you’re ever in the metro Detroit area, hit up Cloverleaf in Eastpointe. it was opened by Gus Guerra after he sold off Buddy’s and hasn’t been chained to death. Sweet! Thanks for the tip! Next time I’m in the area, I definitely will check it out. I used to be up in Detroit environs fairly regularly (like several times a year), but that was about a decade ago. It’s been about three years since I’ve been out there, and I’m itching for a genuine Detroit pie. I’ve tried making it a few times at home, but I can’t _quite_ get that crust right. I mean, it comes close, but it’s just not quite there. If anyone is interested, [here is a good recipe.](http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2017/02/detroit-style-pizza-recipe.html) The pizza obsessives over at [pizzamaking.com](http://pizzamaking.com) also [has a long (32-page) thread](https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3783.0) deconstructing a Buddy’s or Shield’s pizza. It looks like some of the posters hit the style dead-on, judging by the pictures. I haven’t quite been able to achieve the right balance of fried crispness, with that chewy but not overly dense interior texture. If you guys like pizza porn, that’s a great site. And it’s pretty pizza non-partisan. It has recipes and people nerding out about every type of pizza under the sun, including Imo’s. [Here’s a thread for its yeastless crust](https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10191.0), for example. Hell, there’s a 67-page thread on making a Papa John’s clone pizza. Anybody who loves making pizza needs to bookmark that site. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/108 "2017-11-18T14:53:34Z")
Real pizza outside of New York and Philadelphia - that’s funny. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/109 "2017-11-18T14:58:47Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Real pizza outside of New York and Philadelphia - that’s funny. Now don’t you start! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/110 "2017-11-18T19:23:11Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Anyhow, back to bitching about the way people cut pizza. Now, believe it or not, there’s even a _third_ way pizza is cut in certain spots in the Midwest. Now, we have our pie cut; we have our criss-cross square tavern cut. There is also the, I don’t even know what to call it, “strip cut”? You see this mostly in Quad-Cities style pizza (yes, that’s actually a style), [looking like this](http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110406-quad-cities-style-pizza.jpg), but I’ve also seen it in northwest Indiana and [Ohio](http://www.toledoblade.com/Peach-Weekender/2015/04/16/Old-school-Inky-s-never-goes-out-of-style.html). (Well, here in Chicago, too, but it’s only because the place is a Quad Cities style pizza place.) I’ve only seen that style of cut used for breadsticks or “cheesy bread,” never for an actual pizza. > [@DrCube](#): > > I have a buddy who grew up there, and he says every pizza he’s had from anywhere else is a disappointment in comparison. He hasn’t been to Italy, but I think he’s including New York in the “disappointment” category. ah, the “apizza” style. there’s [a small place in metro Detroit](http://tomatoesapizza.com) which offers that style, and it’s pretty good. the closest thing he’d find in Italy would be and actual Neapolitan pizza, but not as heavy on the toppings as apizza. further south you’d find Sicilian types like sfincione which is what a PA tomato pie resembles, and is kinda-sorta the progenitor of “Detroit style” pizza. (\* we used to hit Tomatoes for lunch every so often when I worked in the area. I though it was a bit funny how the place was founded and run by a guy named Weinstein, but the decor was something you’d expect in a mob hangout. Pictures on the wall of pizza makers named Sally Boy Consiglio, Lou Abate, etc. great pizza though.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/111 "2017-11-18T19:46:38Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I’ve only seen that style of cut used for breadsticks or “cheesy bread,” never for an actual pizza. Yeah, it’s a rather quirky style. I’ve only seen it in a handful of places. Like I said, standard in the Quad Cities (Western Illinois, Eastern Iowa), and then seen sporadically in a few other places in the Midwest. It’s a pain in the ass with larger pizzas, but for smaller pizzas, it’s actually nice, because you get crust in every slice. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/112 "2017-11-19T04:28:59Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > OK, this thread is really going down hill - first, people are defending St Louis pizza, and now they are defending St Louis BBQ? St. Louis has one of the best BBQ scenes in the country. :dubious: > [@ExTank](#): > > Eh. Imo’s quality is uneven. The one by where I live, I might be tempted to eat if I were literally starving. The one by where I work is sublime. Provel is an only mildly sharper variant of provolone. Get over it, people; it’s not toe-cheese. We probably live minutes from each other, and I agree. Must be the same place, as any other branch tastes 10x better. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2017, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/113 "2017-11-19T13:44:48Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > No, not accurate. I responded (with two tweets, in quick succession) to his three-parter to me. Had he gone silent, I would not have said anything further about it. I had said my piece. Now that I’m unblocked, come to think of it, I could go and tweet something more about it now, if I had a mind to. But I didn’t and don’t. Yeah, but _he_ doesn’t know that. A well-known critic probably gets lots of people arguing with him who aren’t willing to drop it after a couple of tweets. So it’s not too surprising to me that he’d be a bit quick with the block. Actually, the thing that surprises me is he bothered to go back and unblock you later. But I guess the thread has moved on to focus on pizza at this point (as all the best threads do). ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2017, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/114 "2017-11-21T19:42:04Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Anyhow, back to bitching about the way people cut pizza. Now, believe it or not, there’s even a _third_ way pizza is cut in certain spots in the Midwest. Now, we have our pie cut; we have our criss-cross square tavern cut. There is also the, I don’t even know what to call it, “strip cut”? You see this mostly in Quad-Cities style pizza (yes, that’s actually a style), [looking like this](http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20110406-quad-cities-style-pizza.jpg), but I’ve also seen it in northwest Indiana and [Ohio](http://www.toledoblade.com/Peach-Weekender/2015/04/16/Old-school-Inky-s-never-goes-out-of-style.html). (Well, here in Chicago, too, but it’s only because the place is a Quad Cities style pizza place.) Interesting, both that they cut their pizza like breadsticks and that the Quad Cities actually has its own style of pizza. > [@tim314](#): > > Actually, the thing that surprises me is he bothered to go back and unblock you later. Yeah, that was really surprising. I don’t know what to make of it at all. I wonder if he searched his timeline and found that I had got him a book sale (he is \*super \*into pimping that book) and suddenly felt that he had been rash. It threw me for a loop when I saw he had unblocked me, because it seems churlish on my part to carry the same grudge at him as if he really had permanently blocked me. I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/115 "2017-11-22T02:03:41Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > Interesting, both that they cut their pizza like breadsticks and that the Quad Cities actually has its own style of pizza. Yeah, you’ll see that style of cut sporadically. [Here’s a place in Calumet City](http://slice.seriouseats.com/2010/02/johns-pizzeria-pizza-munster-indiana-review.html), near the Indiana border, that does it that way as well. Actually, John’s pizza is somewhat similar to Quad Cities pizza, in both the cut and the fact they used crumbled sausage (instead of clumps of sausage) as a topping. For me, the defining characteristic of a Quad Cities pizza is the dough/crust. It’s hand pulled and tossed, but contains a significant amount of malt (and rumors that some places use molasses in the dough). So what ends up happening is you get a much darker crust, with a sort of nutty sweetness to it, and a crispy but also chewy sort of texture. Also, spices are sometimes added to the dough. Also, like mentioned, the sausage is a well-spiced pork sausage that is crumbled onto the pizza. If you’ve ever had a loosemeat sandwich, that’s pretty much the texture. It’s a little odd at first, but you get used to it. The sauce tends to be on the slightly spicy side. Also, you may find some combinations not typically found in other pizza joing. Both Harris and Happy Joe’s, for example, have a bacon and sauerkraut pizza on the menu. Wise Guys has a similar offering, except as a Reuben pizza (corned beef, sauerkraut, 1000 island). Taco pizza is also pretty common, with Happy Joe’s being most famous for it. It looks [like this](http://heavytable.com/the-taco-pizza-at-happy-joes/), topped with lettuce, tomato, and crumbled tortilla chips (among other toppings.) It’s … interesting. I can’t say I’m a fan of the taco pizza, but many people from the area swear by it. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/116 "2017-11-22T02:29:12Z")
I’ve never been to Naples for the pizza, because I am afraid of getting my throat slit by a swarthy greasy dago (have you SEEN the crime rates in Naples?). Sicily, however, has some of the best pizza I ever et. I’m not complaining about Roman pizza, either. But possibly the best Italian pizza I’ve eaten was in Trieste, just last summer…interesting, because up until 1918, it was part of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire: the largest city after Vienna, Prague, and Budapest. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/117 "2017-11-22T02:41:15Z")
> [@Ukulele\_Ike](#): > > I’ve never been to Naples for the pizza, because I am afraid of getting my throat slit by a swarthy greasy dago seriously? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/118 "2017-11-22T02:57:42Z")
Ah, no. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/119 "2017-11-22T05:01:06Z")
**[Moderating]** **Ukulele Ike** , you’re lucky that you got that retraction in before I got here, or this would have been a Warning for use of racial slurs. As it is, consider this a very strongly worded note to Not Do This Again. I know that you know better. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2017, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733/120 "2017-11-22T05:45:40Z")
There used to be a pizza place at Laclede’s Landing, Joey B’s at the Landing. Their STL style pizza was good. That provel cheese is unique. I just checked the map and it looks like they’re no longer at the Landing. Imo’s is fair. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-pizza-is-good-relatedly-tv-critic-alan-sepinwall-is-a-jerk/801733.md?page=7)