# St. Louis: What Beef Does The Black Community Have With The Bosnian Community? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768 "2014-12-09T16:44:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/1 "2014-12-09T16:44:59Z")
Shortly after the Darren Wilson news hit last week, there was a crime that took place in St. Louis: Bosnian immigrant Zemir Begic was attacked and killed by black teens wielding hammers. I don’t know why they did it - I wasn’t there, and you weren’t either - but the evidence seems to suggest that it was a hate crime spurred by the Darren Wilson decision. Now another Bosnian immigrant in St. Louis has been attacked, although she survived. Apparently her Bosnian ancestry played a role, according to her report: > [@Bosnian Hate Crime Victim](#): > > “You’re Bosnian,” one of the suspects allegedly said. “I should just kill you now.” I have absolutely no clue why the St. Louis black community - or at least, whatever portion of the black community in STL is prone to racially-motivated violence - would have a beef against the Bosnian community specifically and not, say, the Italian community or the Czech community or the Liechtensteinian community. Any St. Louis Dopers know what’s up? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/2 "2014-12-09T16:47:49Z")
IDK about St. Louis, but here’s a perspective from Des Moines, where I grew up and my parents still live there. In the late 1990s, that city got a huge influx of Bosnian refugees. Like any other ethnicity, most of them are decent people, but some aren’t, and one thing that isn’t discussed much is the prevalence of Bosnian gangs. Conflict with black gangs may be a factor in St. Louis too. ---
**Author:** ![Old\_Red](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7feea3/32.png) [@Old\_Red](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Old_Red)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/3 "2014-12-09T18:51:11Z")
HeyHomie, I’m afraid you are dead in the water from the start. Blacks do not do racial attacks - never, ever. Honest. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/4 "2014-12-09T19:07:04Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > IDK about St. Louis, but here’s a perspective from Des Moines, where I grew up and my parents still live there. > > In the late 1990s, that city got a huge influx of Bosnian refugees. Like any other ethnicity, most of them are decent people, but some aren’t, and one thing that isn’t discussed much is the prevalence of Bosnian gangs. Conflict with black gangs may be a factor in St. Louis too. Good point. A lot of times, prejudice becomes a problem when there is a perception of competition. “They took our jobs!” and “They aren’t like us!” can work together. Compare the anti-Irish prejudice that was widespread in the US in the late 1800’s. It’s pretty much dead now but there was a time in recent history where “No Irish Need Apply”. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/5 "2014-12-09T19:16:29Z")
(should have been its own thread) ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/6 "2014-12-09T19:28:38Z")
I wonder if it’s a more simple racism. They’re white (or look white) and that’s good enough. The ethnicity doesn’t figure in. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/7 "2014-12-09T19:34:58Z")
I question the quoted statement about “You’re Bosnian,” “I should just kill you now.” Can anyone here distinguish by their appearance Bosnians from Croatians, Serbians, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/8 "2014-12-09T19:38:25Z")
> [@Old\_Red](#): > > HeyHomie, I’m afraid you are dead in the water from the start. Blacks do not do racial attacks - never, ever. Honest. **Moderator Note** **Old Red** , this is general questions. We don’t need sarcastic political jabs. No warning issued, but don’t do this again. Colibri General Questions Moderator PS. Let’s focus on the specific question in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/9 "2014-12-09T19:43:00Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > I question the quoted statement about “You’re Bosnian,” “I should just kill you now.” > > Can anyone here distinguish by their appearance Bosnians from Croatians, Serbians, etc? If like Des Moines most of the immigrants were from Bosnia rather than elsewhere in the Balkans, then the attacker may have just been using it as a general term. In fact, [St. Louis has the highest number of Bosnian immigrants in the US,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bosnians_in_St._Louis) most of them Bosniaks (Muslim). ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/10 "2014-12-09T19:53:14Z")
[Why are there so many Bosnians in St. Louis?](http://www.citylab.com/politics/2013/02/why-are-there-so-many-bosnians-st-louis/4668/) If Bosnians are the newest large immigrant group in St. Louis and are competing with blacks for entry level jobs, that could explain any animosity. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/11 "2014-12-09T20:06:10Z")
I lived in St. Louis for the last 20 years. I’ve just recently moved away. Yes, the Bosnian influx was large. They also settled in the older parts of the city that were not totally falling down ghetto. In other words, they moved into the one-or-two-rungs-up-from-dead-last areas. And displaced the blacks who’d been living there. Like most immigrant groups, most folks busted ass working hard & trying to get by. And another group were hard core gangsters. Neither of which sub-groups endeared themselves to the local underclass community. Which is almost entirely black. When I first moved to St. Louis in the '90s I was struck by what a time warp race relations were in then. It really felt like the 1960s with the derelict inner city, white flight, mutual incomprehension and all the rest. In the last 20 years things there have advanced all the way to the late 1960s. The Ferguson killing was certainly the latest event and most nationally prominent. But racially loaded crimes going both ways are depressingly frequent across the area and have been for years. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/12 "2014-12-09T20:07:13Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If Bosnians are the newest large immigrant group in St. Louis and are competing with blacks for entry level jobs, that could explain any animosity. Does “Us vs Them” really need an explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/13 "2014-12-09T20:12:14Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > Does “Us vs Them” really need an explanation? The question is why is the “them” specifically Bosnians in the St. Louis area rather than some other group. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/14 "2014-12-09T20:37:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > And displaced the blacks who’d been living there. How did they do that, throw bombs at their carriages like Sarajevo? ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/15 "2014-12-09T21:22:42Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > In fact, [St. Louis has the highest number of Bosnian immigrants in the US,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Bosnians_in_St._Louis) **most of them Bosniaks (Muslim).** [boldning mine] I did not know that. Of all the Bosnians I have met over the years and working with more than a few, none have been Muslim. ---
**Author:** ![Fallen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e99b99/32.png) [@Fallen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fallen)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/16 "2014-12-09T21:29:02Z")
" … but the evidence seems to suggest that it was a hate crime spurred by the Darren Wilson decision." Nobody else asked that I can tell: what evidence seems to suggest this? ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/17 "2014-12-10T13:57:31Z")
> [@Fallen](#): > > " … but the evidence seems to suggest that it was a hate crime spurred by the Darren Wilson decision." > > Nobody else asked that I can tell: what evidence seems to suggest this? In the immediate aftermath of the Ferguson grand jury decision, a group of black guys beat a white guy to death with hammers, specifically citing his (presumed) ethnicity as the reason for the attack. A couple of days later, they do the same thing again, except the woman survives. Why, may I ask, would anyone think these aren’t hate crimes? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/18 "2014-12-10T14:39:17Z")
Are Bosnians regarded as in some way responsible for the Darren Wilson decision? ---
**Author:** ![busterpickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@busterpickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/busterpickle)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/19 "2014-12-10T15:27:45Z")
I lived in St Louis in the 80’s and it sucked to go to school. Racial strife was common especially with the bussed in inner city kids. The education system was really poor and when I went to the flipside of the DC-area I almost got held back a year. Why it’s so bad is that a lot of money is spent on the education programs for the inner city youth. The rest of the school is left barely standard. Why it’s so bad I don’t know but it is. ---
**Author:** ![GythaOgg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/49beb7/32.png) [@GythaOgg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GythaOgg)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2014, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768/20 "2014-12-10T15:47:51Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > How did they do that, throw bombs at their carriages like Sarajevo? Except the community the Bosnians mostly moved into, the Bevo neighborhood and surroundings, wasn’t largely black. Prior to the Bosnians moving into the area, it was largely Vietnamese - and yes, there has been some conflict between what remains of the older Vietnamese community and the newer Bosnian community. I’m not saying there’s not conflict between black and Bosnian communities in other parts of the city. But the Bevo neighborhood is known as the largest Bosnian community locally. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-louis-what-beef-does-the-black-community-have-with-the-bosnian-community/706768.md?page=2)