# St Pete Times: Special Report on Scientology **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 21, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471 "2009-06-21T14:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/21 "2009-06-22T17:42:55Z")
I live in Chicago and Kansas City. How can I support this paper is their brave, [and possibly suicidal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network), endeavor? ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/22 "2009-06-22T18:09:38Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > I live in Chicago and Kansas City. How can I support this paper is their brave, [and possibly suicidal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network), endeavor? At the official website, [Tampabay.com](http://tampabay.com) there’s a link near the bottom of the page to the gift store. I believe it ships nationwide. _The Times_ also maintains a subscription “e-edition” that includes the entirety of the contents of the daily paper. For people in the Tampa Bay area there’s a quick and easy link there to subscribe to the physical newspaper. I haven’t included any direct links, and I hope this doesn’t run afoul of the boards “no solicitation” policy. ---
**Author:** ![SanibelMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e4f/32.png) [@SanibelMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanibelMan)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/23 "2009-06-22T18:45:31Z")
I noticed in the comments of today’s story, someone mentioned going to a 7-Eleven in Clearwater to buy a paper, only to have the clerk tell him that “someone” came in early in the morning and bought up all the copies - $92 worth. So hey, maybe this series will actually help the Times’ circulation! And in all seriousness, this is a very important and powerful story, and I’m glad to see the St. Pete Times taking on the Scientologists. A lot of chain-owned papers would have stayed away from a story like this for all kinds of legal and financial reasons. ---
**Author:** ![RoniaBorkason](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9dc877/32.png) [@RoniaBorkason](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoniaBorkason)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/24 "2009-06-22T19:10:23Z")
My worry is that the newspaper will be sued under [UK](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/15/BA7I17KKT6.DTL) [libel](http://www.popehat.com/2009/05/20/if-the-british-legal-system-had-a-spine-these-plaintiffs-could-adjust-it/) [laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism). Is Scientology legally based in the US? Could they sue from a British Org? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/25 "2009-06-22T19:15:01Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I look forward to reading this when I have the time. And having done so: scary shit, although at this point it’s hard to be surprised by anything these people have done. ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/26 "2009-06-22T19:27:04Z")
As was mentioned, this is hardly the first instance of The Times confronting CoS directly and certainly not the first time they’ve reported about the ugly underbelly. I worked their for seven years and there was always a big flap when anything was going down with The Church. Their newest recruiting office opened up just a few blocks from the Times and I’ve asked my friends who still work at the paper if they’ve ever gotten any flak. They say no, (but at least one of them prefers to take a differernt route on her morning walks). I’m no defender of CoS but as someone who lives in their midst they honestly never cross my mind / path. I just don’t want anyone to think one can’t walk around St. Pete or Clearwater without being accosted by rampant Scientologists. Be more afraid of the palmetto bugs. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/27 "2009-06-22T22:18:52Z")
> [@RoniaBorkason](#): > > My worry is that the newspaper will be sued under [UK](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/05/15/BA7I17KKT6.DTL) [libel](http://www.popehat.com/2009/05/20/if-the-british-legal-system-had-a-spine-these-plaintiffs-could-adjust-it/) [laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libel_tourism). Is Scientology legally based in the US? Could they sue from a British Org? I’d be impressed if they could convince a UK court to assert jurisdiction over a Floridian newspaper. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/28 "2009-06-22T22:25:20Z")
> [@Jihi](#): > > Just FTR, [The Poynter Institute](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poynter_Institute) actually owns and runs the paper, not the other way around. The Poynter Institute is the controlling interest of [The Times Publishing Company](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Times_Publishing_Company) which publishes _The St. Petersburg Times, Congressional Quarterly_, and a few other publications. And I’m afraid that we might not be running _CQ_ much longer. It hasn’t been announced yet, but the word on the street is that CQ was sold on Friday. (I’m in the publishing biz.) ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/29 "2009-06-22T22:39:18Z")
> [@PoorYorick](#): > > The article noted a couple of times where Scientologists used physical intimidation on the reporters. For instance, several executives barred the door (“stood shoulder to shoulder”) and refused to let the reporters leave until they had had their say. One of them screamed at the reporter. Christ, they are being true to form. The Times has been trying to get an interview with Miscavige for months (he’s been “too busy”), and now they’re crying foul that the Times is running the article without interviewing him. > > Higher ranking members are required to regularly confess their sins, making sins up if they have to. These confessions are filed and stored. Guess what the scientologists are pulling out to prove that the sources are lying? All neatly bound and tabulated. > > Since I’ve moved here, I’ve been amazed at the caliber of reporting from the The St. Petersburg Times. I was expecting something more provincial. I especially liked this quote from “church” spokesman Tommy Davis: If Rathbun’s responsibility was as limited as the church says, the Times asked, how did he get people to submit to a reign of terror? Davis, the church spokesman, erupted. "He’s the one who’s saying that Dave Miscavige beat these people,‘’ Davis screamed. "And he’s saying that Dave Miscavige beat the exact same people that he beat. And that’s what pisses me off. Because this guy’s a f------ lunatic and I don’t have to explain how or why he became one or how it was allowable. “The fact is he’s saying David Miscavige did what he did … And now I’m getting a little angry. Am I angry at you? Not necessarily. But I’m g-- d— pissed at Marty Rathbun. Because he knows that he was the reign of terror.” Classy guy ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/30 "2009-06-22T23:22:21Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > It hasn’t been announced yet, but the word on the street is that CQ was sold on Friday. (I’m in the publishing biz.) It wouldn’t surprise me in the least. I know it’s been getting shopped around for awhile now. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/31 "2009-06-23T00:08:57Z")
[Operation Clambake](http://www.xenu.net/) ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/32 "2009-06-23T03:47:15Z")
I just got around to watching the entire Jason Beghe (former scientologist) interview on You tube last night. He come across as a pretty nice guy, very genuine, and a real mench. It’s pretty sad though to see how he is still a little bit fucked up by the experience. A ‘must see’ for anyone who is interested in scientology. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/33 "2009-06-23T13:34:23Z")
**silenus** - please return and explain why Scientology is not a religion. I understand that it is completely baseless and fucked up, and overly concerned with separating its adherents from their money. But surely that alone is not sufficient to disqualify it. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/96bed5/32.png) [@Patty\_O\_Furniture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patty_O_Furniture)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/34 "2009-06-23T13:46:17Z")
It’s a shame that none of these high ranking officers wore a wire into one of their top secret meetings to get some hard evidence before they decided to actually defect. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/35 "2009-06-23T13:56:03Z")
Interesting that after denying every point in the story, the Scientology spokespeople say ‘Oh yes, we do have top executives periodically jump into a pool while clothed. That’s completely normal.’ ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/36 "2009-06-23T15:36:59Z")
Well, if you want to use Friedrich Schleiermacher’s definition, Scientology qualifies. He defined religion as “a feeling of absolute dependence.” I would define them more as a “cult,” or “a cohesive social group and their devotional beliefs or practices, which the surrounding population considers to be outside of mainstream cultures.” I consider the beliefs baseless and phony, the adherents fools, the leadership corrupt, and advocate the total destruction of the organization and the seizure of all of its possessions world-wide. Scorched-earth. Let none be spared. One of the true tests of a religion is whether or not its followers are willing to die for their beliefs. Let’s put the leadership to that test. When the top Scientologists willingly accept martyrdom for the cause, then maybe I’ll reconsider my position. But I doubt it. OK, since when did I become **Der Trihs**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/37 "2009-06-23T15:47:10Z")
All religions start out as cults. Eventually they gain acceptance through child indoctrination and plain old time. From the viewpoint of someone who has never been indoctrinated, it’s no weirder than The Big Three. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/38 "2009-06-23T16:00:28Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I would define them more as a “cult,” or “a cohesive social group and their devotional beliefs or practices, which the surrounding population considers to be outside of mainstream cultures.” As the lovely Ms. K observes, it generally seems as tho cult + time = religion. Just to get a framework of where you come from, do you consider Mormon a religion? I have essentially no sympathy for any cults or religions. But if I were to distinguish between the two, I think I would suggest that a religion pursues some broader socially beneficial agendas rather than cults which do are aimed primarily at simply increasing the number and devotion of their members and the organization’s wealth. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/39 "2009-06-23T16:11:01Z")
I waffle on Mormonism. I personally find it laughable, but I live in a Mormon-heavy town, and I work with them every day, so I have come to give at least grudging respect to the cohesiveness of their families. I have none of that for Scientology. I would accept your distinction. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471/40 "2009-06-23T16:44:16Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I waffle on Mormonism. I personally find it laughable, but I live in a Mormon-heavy town, and I work with them every day, so I have come to give at least grudging respect to the cohesiveness of their families. I have none of that for Scientology. I would accept your distinction. From my limited exposure to both, I have always thought of the COS as a cross between Mormons and Hells Angels… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-pete-times-special-report-on-scientology/500471.md?page=3)