# ST:TNG, Encounter at Farpoint makes so much more sense ... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 21, 2015, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065 "2015-06-21T04:56:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/81 "2015-06-24T18:49:39Z")
Yeah, what was the deal with the separable saucer section for battle engagements? All that does is put all your hostages in a single place where they can’t escape capture. The docking procedure did look cool, that one time they did it, though. I can’t help thinking of it every time I see a Royal Caribbean cruise ship. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/82 "2015-06-24T19:29:20Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > They also had Roddenberry, who was not only an award-winning writer but understood SF as well. The show’s decline started when his involvement began to slacken off until it was “virtually nonexisent” (Nimoy’s words) in the third season. Most importantly he had a consistent vision of an optimistic future, and enforced it. Plus, his stint in the military made the earlier shows have a more realistic feel to them. In “The Corbomite Maneuver” he had the officers drill to improve their reaction times. Did Picard ever even think about doing that? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/83 "2015-06-24T19:36:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Most importantly he had a consistent vision of an optimistic future, and enforced it. Plus, his stint in the military made the earlier shows have a more realistic feel to them. In “The Corbomite Maneuver” he had the officers drill to improve their reaction times. Did Picard ever even think about doing that? nm ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/84 "2015-06-24T19:45:36Z")
He even had Drill Thralls! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/85 "2015-06-24T20:07:25Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Patrick Stewart. Great actor, even when his character wasn’t fully fleshed out. _She can have ze chicken!_ His best performance ever. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/86 "2015-06-24T20:08:05Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > “Councillor” does sound like a euphemistic name for a political commissar – trained to make sure counter-federationary thought doesn’t take hold aboard ship. She senses someone having “incorrect emotions” and makes sure to “suggest” a “counselling session”. This fits with my theory - the reason Star fleet doesn’t (appear to) have money, and how everyone works together for the greater good and doesn’t have to pay for food or shelter, (From each according to his ability, to each according to his need), is that yea, the great political philosophies of the 20th century, communism and capitalism, clashed in world war III, but it was the communists that won! > [@PSXer](#): > > Families were included because of Gene’s stubborn insistence that Starfleet is not a military > > they get into dangerous situations all the time and forget there are children on the ship 90% of the time Heck, that’s not unusual in TV. In later seasons The Simpsons seem to forget that they have Maggie, and it’s still a good show. isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/87 "2015-06-24T20:11:23Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Most importantly he had a consistent vision of an optimistic future, and enforced it. Plus, his stint in the military made the earlier shows have a more realistic feel to them. In “The Corbomite Maneuver” he had the officers drill to improve their reaction times. Did Picard ever even think about doing that? I think they did. There are scenes set in the phaser range, and there was a whole episode dedicated to practicing for combat with the Borg. Don’t forget, these drills were really only shown in that one TOS episode. It wasn’t a constant plot point. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/88 "2015-06-25T02:00:20Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > “Councillor” does sound like a euphemistic name for a political commissar – trained to make sure counter-federationary thought doesn’t take hold aboard ship. She senses someone having “incorrect emotions” and makes sure to “suggest” a “counselling session”. Interestingly, the original TNG show “Bible”—available online, with a bit of digging; I’ll try and find a link, later—spells out what seems to be the early-season undercurrent along those lines. Well, not that she’s the _Zampolit_, but that “Counselor” position is less “ship’s therapist” and more like “ship’s ambassador” or “ship’s interpersonal adviser.” Like I said, an interesting _concept_, if a bit heavy-handed 80s new-agey, although the execution (at least) was lacking. And as the show developed…well, better get used to just writing Rigelian Xanax prescriptions, Commisar. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/89 "2015-06-25T04:00:29Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. Replicator technology renders this whole point moot. Once a computer can give you anything you want, from hot tea to a hot woman,\* who de hell gonna wanna go t’work ev’ry mornin’? :dubious: Interesting that in Kirk’s time, free enterprise (nudge, nudge!) was still alive and well: they had prosperous farmers, filthy rich miners, and private traders who eked out a living dealing in rare commodities. By Picard’s time, free enterprise had become something dirty, as personified by the Ferengi, and a civilized person worked only on making him/herself “better.” Asking “Who’s going to pay for all this?” had become irrelevant. \*Except, of course, dilithium crystals. Can’t replicate 'em, never keep any extras on board. Helluva way to run a fleet! ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/90 "2015-06-25T04:09:39Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > “Counselor” position is less “ship’s therapist” and more like “ship’s ambassador” or “ship’s interpersonal adviser.” Actually, she was intended to replace today’s ship’s chaplains, since religion will apparently have ceased to exist among humans 300 years from now. In practice, yeah, she became nothing but a nosy pshrink–psocial worker–buttinsky. Odd that such adavanced people still couldn’t handle personal problems on their own; they never seemed to have any trouble with this in Kirk’s day. (Back then, of course, kindly old Dr McCoy was always there to offer free alcohol and advice.) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/91 "2015-06-25T05:32:03Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Interesting that in Kirk’s time, free enterprise (nudge, nudge!) was still alive and well: they had prosperous farmers, filthy rich miners, and private traders who eked out a living dealing in rare commodities. > > By Picard’s time, free enterprise had become something dirty, as personified by the Ferengi, and a civilized person worked only on making him/herself “better.” Asking “Who’s going to pay for all this?” had become irrelevant. Not _[Free Enterprise](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0141105/)!_ ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/92 "2015-06-28T00:13:44Z")
One of the things that made Season 1 different was that they had not yet forgotten that THINGS WERE DIFFERENT in the future. It wasn’t just 1996 with phasers. Take this exchange from “The Battle”, for example: CRUSHER: There are still forty minutes before the Ferengi beam over. I’ll have these scans done in ten. PICARD: It seems an awful lot of effort for something as simple as a headache. CRUSHER: As simple? You should not have a headache unless there’s something wrong, sir. It may be true that headaches were once quite common, but that was in the days before the brain was charted, before we understood the nature of pain. When we were suffering from such things as the common cold. Now think about that. A world where headaches and the common cold have been _all but totally eradicated_. A world whose very day-to-day life would probably be as unrecognizable to us as our day-to-day lives would be unrecognizable to someone from the 16th century. Compare this with your average episode of _Star Trek: Voyager_. Where was the Emergency Medical Hologram when Captain Janeway had headaches?!? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/93 "2015-06-28T01:28:38Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Actually, she was intended to replace today’s ship’s chaplains, since religion will apparently have ceased to exist among humans 300 years from now. > > In practice, yeah, she became nothing but a nosy pshrink–psocial worker–buttinsky. Odd that such adavanced people still couldn’t handle personal problems on their own; they never seemed to have any trouble with this in Kirk’s day. (Back then, of course, kindly old Dr McCoy was always there to offer free alcohol and advice.) A man will tell his bartender things he wouldn’t tell his doctor. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/94 "2015-06-28T02:00:01Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Actually, she was intended to replace today’s ship’s chaplains, since religion will apparently have ceased to exist among humans 300 years from now. > > In practice, yeah, she became nothing but a nosy pshrink–psocial worker–buttinsky. Odd that such adavanced people still couldn’t handle personal problems on their own; they never seemed to have any trouble with this in Kirk’s day. (Back then, of course, kindly old Dr McCoy was always there to offer free alcohol and advice.) I have stated before here I believe she is really for espionage, and for first contact and other diplomatic missions where knowing what the other guy is actually thinking is of value. I imagine counselor is her cover, and why she is on the bridge is her real mission. I imagine Betazoids or hybrids are on every Fed ship. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/95 "2015-06-28T02:02:23Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > A man will tell his bartender things he wouldn’t tell his doctor. That was what Guinan was there for. I mean, as in a plot device, not an official capacity. And for some reason, the name always evokes purple in my mind. I wonder why that is. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/96 "2015-06-28T02:08:10Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > Compare this with your average episode of _Star Trek: Voyager_. Where was the Emergency Medical Hologram when Captain Janeway had headaches?!? Crusher said they were eradicated. Janeway didn’t have headaches, unless it involved coffee. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/97 "2015-06-28T02:17:47Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > This fits with my theory - the reason Star fleet doesn’t (appear to) have money, and how everyone works together for the greater good and doesn’t have to pay for food or shelter, (From each according to his ability, to each according to his need), is that yea, the great political philosophies of the 20th century, communism and capitalism, clashed in world war III, but it was the communists that won! Actually, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need” originated in the Christian Bible. I don’t have the exact reference at hand, but it’s in the book of Acts, describing how the early Church community ran itself and helped each other. But I see your point. My stepfather would get into heated arguments with other Christians when he tried to point out this concept. His “opponents” in these arguments would counter with, “That’s communism!”, because they’d latched onto the “if you don’t work, you don’t eat” statement that Paul\* made in one of his letters. Never mind that they were taking Paul out of context, based on their American Capitalism view of the world (Paul was specifically making that comment to Christian “leeches” who believed that Jesus was coming back any day now and had decided to be lazy and do nothing, while helping themselves to the free charity). - Funny story: After my stepfather got fired from his position as Executive Director of the local men’s homeless shelter, the board of directors hired a crazy woman to replace him. She gave a talk to all the homeless guys, and stated that she had gone to “Bible College”. Then, later in her talk, she was stressing the importance of long-term residents performing chores around the house, and she made the statement, “Like Jesus said, ‘if you don’t work, you don’t eat’.” Of course, all of us long-term residents attended Bible study on a regular basis, and we were all secretly thinking to ourselves, “Doesn’t this ‘Bible College’ graduate know that Paul said that, not Jesus?” > [@Ranchoth](#): > > Interestingly, the original TNG show “Bible”—available online, with a bit of digging; I’ll try and find a link, later—spells out what seems to be the early-season undercurrent along those lines. Well, not that she’s the _Zampolit_, but that “Counselor” position is less “ship’s therapist” and more like “ship’s ambassador” or “ship’s interpersonal adviser.” > > Like I said, an interesting _concept_, if a bit heavy-handed 80s new-agey, although the execution (at least) was lacking. And as the show developed…well, better get used to just writing Rigelian Xanax prescriptions, Commisar. 😃 The best thing that ever happened with Troi was the episode where the “guest Captain” in Picard’s absence demanded that she wear a regulation uniform. I always thought that she looked _better_ in the uniform than she did in those dresses she wore earlier. But has there ever been any official explanation for why her uniform was not the same shade of blue as every other “blueshirt” character? My theory is that the standard blue uniform shade didn’t work well with Martina Sirtis’ complexion. She’s a “winter” like me, and I know that there are certain colors of shirts that I just can’t wear. Like tan/beige — if I wear a tan or beige shirt, I look downright sickly. My shirts have to be black, white, or bright or dark primary colors other than yellow (which is why my shirts are mostly black or red). I don’t look good at all in muted colors. I would look good in the TNG Command red/burgundy, but I wouldn’t look good at all in the Sciences periwinkle blue or Operations mustard yellow (although both might be offset by the black shoulders). ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/98 "2015-06-28T03:17:54Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > That was what Guinan was there for. I mean, as in a plot device, not an official capacity. And for some reason, the name always evokes purple in my mind. I wonder why that is. It’s a line from the ship’s Dr on the original TOS pilot ep. Same scene where we see Pike’s hat. But yeah, Whoopie served a delicious combination of spirits (synth and real) and conversation. I actually liked the Guinan character. The movie Generatons even helps flesh her out, imho. ymmv, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/99 "2015-06-28T03:20:06Z")
> [@grude](#): > > I have stated before here I believe she is really for espionage, and for first contact and other diplomatic missions where knowing what the other guy is actually thinking is of value. > > I imagine counselor is her cover, and why she is on the bridge is her real mission. I imagine Betazoids or hybrids are on every Fed ship. But the problem is that she was never really used for that. Sure, she would tell you what the other guy was “feeling” (not thinking, because she couldn’t do that.) But it was always completely obvious. Hence, why I was pointing out that she was useless. As for the headache thing: that episode was contradictory. If headaches had been eliminated, why did Picard think they were no big deal? You suddenly have a part of you body hurt that has never hurt before, and you just act like there’s nothing wrong? And why didn’t Beverly insist on figuring out what was wrong instead of just giving pain killers? I think that, with headaches being mentioned elsewhere without comment, it was clearly just part of the First Season Weirdness that got ignored as they went on. TOS had some of that, too. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065/100 "2015-06-28T03:58:40Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > CRUSHER: As simple? You should not have a headache unless there’s something wrong, sir. It may be true that headaches were once quite common, but that was in the days before the brain was charted, before we understood the nature of pain. When we were suffering from such things as the common cold. > Now think about that. A world where headaches and the common cold have been _all but totally eradicated_. A world whose very day-to-day life would probably be as unrecognizable to us as our day-to-day lives would be unrecognizable to someone from the 16th century. I don’t mind the idea that headaches (that aren’t serious business) and the common cold could be eliminated by humans that still resembled today’s humans otherwise. I don’t have a cold or a headache most days, that would simply change to every day. I do mind that the dialogue makes no sense unless Dr. Crusher knows that someone from 1996 is listening in. Like “Isn’t it so great that we live in The Future, instead of in 1996 where they have things like minor headaches? But we have advanced so far since 1996 since we understand pain now. The common cold is also something people in 1996 suffered from but we do not.” The real conversation would be something like, “Well, that doesn’t seem like a big deal but we should check these things out because there’s probably a reason”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-encounter-at-farpoint-makes-so-much-more-sense/723065.md?page=6)