# (ST: TNG) Is it ever explained... **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2014, 12:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854 "2014-10-09T12:26:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/41 "2014-10-09T22:09:04Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Ah, but that was an alien replacement of the captain. … Who was identical in every way. (How the hell would an alien know “Hearts of Oak”? :dubious: ) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/42 "2014-10-09T22:18:07Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > … Who was identical in every way. (How the hell would an alien know “Hearts of Oak”? :dubious: ) Identical in every way? The fact that he wasn’t, to a suspicious degree, is what makes Riker relieve him of command. As for how they know Hearts of Oak, the [answer is obvious](http://www.quickmeme.com/img/5e/5eff91625c51b56d5bdabbee01fae165dad0e2fc112dd01fcb5dc472a038d8f0.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/43 "2014-10-09T22:38:03Z")
Let’s not forget that Picard’s feud with his brother is that the brother stayed on with the family vineyard and Picard left to go adventuring. ([Link](http://www.startrek.com/database_article/picard-robert)) I don’t think we’re told exactly when that happened or exactly where Picard went, but I always assumed that it meant Picard went through college/officer’s training in England, thus exposing himself to the accent. It would make sense if Picard adopted that accent as part of his goal to ambitiously recreate himself as something other than a French farmer. I think it’s also worth noting that France and England are extremely close together - especially so in a future where the English channel can be crossed by the equivalent of the family car. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/44 "2014-10-09T22:52:09Z")
Picard went to Starfleet Academy in San Francisco ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/45 "2014-10-09T23:08:11Z")
“Vive L’Amour!” would have been much more appropriate than “Hearts of Oak,” especially in Ten-Forward. And it wasn’t until around the third station break that Riker and the others finally caught on. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/a9Z4WxwomOg/hqdefault.jpg "Vive L'Amour (Performed by One)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9Z4WxwomOg) ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/46 "2014-10-10T03:15:17Z")
I am more curious as to how Deanna Troi started out with a vague, ambiguously “Mediterranean” accent but ended up a straight Brit by the end of the movies. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/47 "2014-10-10T04:14:43Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > …My own headcannon, Picard is speaking French all the time, but the Universal Translator renders in into perfect, accentless English. We see plenty of characters, however, that speak English with some sort of regional or foreign accent. Do people in the Trek universe get to choose somehow how they want to be perceived through the Universal Translator? E.g. could a Japanese speaker with a native Osaka accent decide that the Universal Translator, when it does its stuff, should translate their speech into Brooklyn-accented English, Swiss German (none of that German-German stuff), Lebanese-inflected Arabic, Puerto Rican Spanish, Bokmal Norwegian, and if they should ever encounter a speaker of an Australian Aborigine language, the Universal Translator should make sure that they are perceived as having an Israeli accent? Then another person could decide that they would rather have their (Universally Translated) German sound like it was pronounced by a native English speaker from Alabama and their French sound distinctly Canadian. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/48 "2014-10-10T04:28:42Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > I am more curious as to how Deanna Troi started out with a vague, ambiguously “Mediterranean” accent but ended up a straight Brit by the end of the movies. That’s because Marina Sirtis decided to create a Betazoid accent on her own, but dropped in after none of the Betazoid guest actors went along with it. Fun fact; one point in early planning stages producer suggested Troi have _3_ breasts, but that idea was vetoed. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/49 "2014-10-10T04:39:13Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > That’s because Marina Sirtis decided to create a Betazoid accent on her own, but dropped in after none of the Betazoid guest actors went along with it. \*\* Fun fact; one point in early planning stages producer suggested Troi have _3_ breasts, but that idea was vetoed.\*\* Where would they find room for a third? Maybe on the back. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/50 "2014-10-10T04:58:27Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > How does an obviously Japanese guy like Hikaru Sulu end up speaking American accented English in TOS? The canonical explanation is that Sulu was born in San Francisco. STIV: The Voyage Home. When they arrive in 1980s San Francisco, Sulu says, “I was born there.” In the script, Sulu was even going to encounter a young boy who would turn out to be one of his ancestors, so the Sulus have lived there for hundreds of years. > [@running\_coach](#): > > Where would they find room for a third? Maybe on the back. That would be an interesting thing to see at a Betazoid wedding! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/51 "2014-10-10T06:00:20Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > > [@Lemur866](#): > > > > How does an obviously Japanese guy like Hikaru Sulu end up speaking American accented English in TOS? > > The canonical explanation is that Sulu was born in San Francisco. So what he really ought to have been asking is, “How does an obviously African woman like Uhura end up speaking American-accented English in TOS?” ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/52 "2014-10-10T12:23:16Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > So what he really ought to have been asking is, “How does an obviously African woman like Uhura end up speaking American-accented English in TOS?” Or even, “Why does Scotty talk like _(in the words of Craig Ferguson, an actual Scot)_ a retarded Pakistani?” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/53 "2014-10-10T17:37:34Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Fun fact; one point in early planning stages producer suggested Troi have _3_ breasts, but that idea was vetoed. Instead of two navels, like Mariette Hartley had in _ **Genesis II** _? :eek: That would have been interesting, except Troi’s rack needed absolutely \*no \*enhancement! :o ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/54 "2014-10-10T18:25:42Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > That bit was comedy. French is NOT an obscure language in Picard’s time. Data is the only one not to realise this. > > My own headcannon, Picard is speaking French all the time, but the Universal Translator renders in into perfect, accentless English. I don’t read that scene that way. For convenenience, here’s [the scene in question](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlhzX7UKKNU): **PICARD** : Let’s hear the analysis. **DATA** : It is a highly structured society in which people live by strict codes of honor. For example, what Lutan did is similar to what certain American Indians once did called “counting coup.” That is from an obscure language known as French. “Counting coup…” **PICARD** : Mr. Data, the French language for centuries on Earth represented civilization. **DATA** : Indeed? But surely, sir… **RIKER** : I suggest you drop it, Mr. Data. **DATA** : Yes sir. Yes, it is humor, but the idea that Data had incorrect facts seems odd to me. He’s had gaps in knowledge before, but they are always in the form of not knowing a term or concept. Not in having actual incorrect information. Furthermore, even after being corrected by Picard, he still tries to argue that what he says is accurate. It seems more a social faux pas than a knowledge mistake. I think it makes more sense that French is obscure by some standard. It is probably spoken by relatively few people. Note how Picard describes it only in its past usage, not present. I think it is likely that, with a one-world government and seemingly common language (as all humans can understand each other even when the universal translators fail), national languages have become less important, more a second language for people who have national pride. We know from “Family” (the one after Picard was assimilated) that the Picards have a lot of national pride, so it fits. We also have info from Picard’s bio: Born in Paris, France, Picard betrays a gallic accent only when deep emotions are triggered. Otherwise, since ethnic accents are no longer common, he carries only a touch of French phrasing in his speech. In discussions with friends, he pretends to believe that France represents “the only true civilization” to appear on Earth – and that it delights him when a witty companion wants to prove the same for England, Italy or China. He is definitely a ‘romantic’ and sincerely believes in concepts like honor and duty although on issues that affect the safety if his crew and starship he can be completely pragmatic and tough as hell. Granted, a lot of that didn’t ever really show up in the show, but that’s clearly what they are working with this early on, in Season 1. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/55 "2014-10-10T19:16:11Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > The canonical explanation is that Sulu was born in San Francisco. STIV: The Voyage Home. When they arrive in 1980s San Francisco, Sulu says, “I was born there.” In the script, Sulu was even going to encounter a young boy who would turn out to be one of his ancestors, so the Sulus have lived there for hundreds of years. Yes, so…Japanese people living in America for hundreds of years, speaking American dialect English. And this is more believable than a Frenchman speaking English dialect English. The point is, characters of any particular ethnicity speaking in an American dialect seems perfectly reasonable. To Americans. But characters with random ethnicities using a British dialect requires some sort of explanation, because a Frenchman with an American accent is normal, a Frenchman with a British accent is bizarre. Of course the real world explanation is the same one for why aliens in Star Trek speak with American accents, but aliens/ancient Romans/subterranean reptiles in Doctor Who speak with British accents. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/56 "2014-10-10T20:21:23Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > That bit was comedy. French is NOT an obscure language in Picard’s time. Data is the only one not to realise this. > > My own headcannon, Picard is speaking French all the time, but the Universal Translator renders in into perfect, accentless English. Except it’s not accentless, or he’s sound like Riker. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/57 "2014-10-11T03:01:11Z")
No, Riker has a very pronounced American accent. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2014, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854/58 "2014-10-13T04:23:42Z")
Well, he is from Alaska, after all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-it-ever-explained/700854.md?page=2)