# ST: TNG, is there an episode with a bigger plot hole than this? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 4, 2014, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873 "2014-01-04T13:24:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/21 "2014-01-04T20:42:38Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It’s been Lore all along?! Someone warn the Captain! 🙂 And they disassembled (another plot hole) Data!! This means they don’t need that stupid B4, Data is just disassembled on a shelf somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![TaoPilot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TaoPilot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TaoPilot)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/22 "2014-01-04T20:53:44Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > I always felt that the Prime Directive stuff in “Justice” qualified as a pretty big plot hole. > > Wesley broke a couple of plants on the paradise planet where breaking any rule is a death sentence, and Captain Picard can’t beam him away because that would be interfering with planetary affairs. So what’s his backup plan? > > **He tries to argue them out of their culture’s concept of justice** > > Seriously, in what galaxy is that less interference than taking back a crewman who isn’t really anything to do with the native planet or their own business? > > 😕 :smack: :mad: In defense of this episode, Picard wasn’t reluctant to beam Wesley away because of interference reasons. In fact, he was ready to beam everyone up and just get away from that planet. It was the Edo god machine thing that was blocking them from transporting Wesley. Picard argued their concept of justice in order to convince the Edo god to let them take Wesley back to the ship. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/23 "2014-01-04T22:02:56Z")
The xenophobic aliens wanted to destroy the Enterprise and crew.The stakes were really high that Data fool the crew. I enjoyed watching Data’s plan come apart because humans are so inquisitive. Seeing poor Data beg the aliens for a do over was interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/24 "2014-01-05T00:01:01Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > The PD only applies to planets that have not yet been contacted and are unaware of the existence of the Federation. Be kind of pointless then, wouldn’t it. The PD applied to the gangster planet, though Kirk broke it with the excuse it had been broken already, and Picard applies it to all sorts of races who know about the Federation. Absurdly so in some cases. I believe Cisco criticized Kirk for interfering in the Mirror universe as a prime example of the ill effects of violating the PD. Of course contact is also interference, but that is an inherent plot hole to let them visit new planets. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/25 "2014-01-05T02:01:17Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **standingwave** : > > My biggest plot hole is why, anytime anyone uses the transporter, a backup copy of that person isn’t saved to guard against something bad happening on the away mission. For the same reason that you don’t save a backup copy of yourself whenever you walk out the door. In neither case is there ever any copying involved. But if we’re going to talk about Prime Directive violations, how about Voyager? Not any particular violation _in_ Voyager, mind you: The central premise of the entire series. The whole reason they’re stranded in the delta quadrant to begin with is that they considered it so vitally important to violate the Prime Directive that they had to stay behind to absolutely guarantee that their interference would stay in place, rather than allow themselves to be sent back and risk the small possibility of obeying it. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/26 "2014-01-05T02:39:24Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Not only that, but I was under the impression that he only saved Wesley because his mother was on the ship and Picard was responsible (I think) for Jack Crusher’s death. Roddenberry’s original plan was for Wesley to be Picard & Crusher’s love child; this concept was later abandoned, but it was still in play when that episode was produced. > [@Chronos](#): > > …The whole reason they’re stranded in the delta quadrant to begin with is that they considered it so vitally important to violate the Prime Directive that they had to stay behind to absolutely guarantee that their interference would stay in place, rather than allow themselves to be sent back and risk the small possibility of obeying it. Speaking of the Ocampa; their reproductive biology has some serious plot holes. The females can only get pregnant once in their lifetimes; which means that unless litters are the norm their population would decline by half each generation (more that half when you account for Ocampan who die before they can reproduce). And the only Ocampan main character was both an only child and (in an alternate timeline) the mother of one child. Nothing was ever said about Kes’s lack of siblings bbeing unusual. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/27 "2014-01-05T03:25:47Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > Roddenberry’s original plan was for Wesley to be Picard & Crusher’s love child; this concept was later abandoned, but it was still in play when that episode was produced. > > Speaking of the Ocampa; their reproductive biology has some serious plot holes. The females can only get pregnant once in their lifetimes; which means that unless litters are the norm their population would decline by half each generation (more that half when you account for Ocampan who die before they can reproduce). And the only Ocampan main character was both an only child and (in an alternate timeline) the mother of one child. Nothing was ever said about Kes’s lack of siblings bbeing unusual. yeah - but they live forever ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/28 "2014-01-05T03:56:43Z")
> [@simster](#): > > yeah - but they live forever Or…9 years. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/29 "2014-01-05T04:20:49Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Or…9 years. exactly. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/30 "2014-01-05T05:25:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For the same reason that you don’t save a backup copy of yourself whenever you walk out the door. In neither case is there ever any copying involved. Well, I don’t as I don’t have the technology but it certainly would seem prudent if one served on the Enterprise. Once a day, report to sickbay and make a backup. After all, you never know when the Holodeck is going to going to lose its safety protocols. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/31 "2014-01-05T13:21:56Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The other two were Keiko O’Brien and Guinan. > > And I think it assumes his heart reverts to the same state it was when he was actually that age - ie, a non-stabbed biological heart - which has significant logic issues, but… Picard has a biological heart by that episode. Or so someone told me when I noticed the same plot hole. There’s supposed to be a throwaway line at the end of the episode where Picard has a near-death experience with Q referencing the appearance f a new, biological heart. Consider – if Junior Officer “Johnny” Picard fights the Nausican, he gets an artificial heart, and dies in Sick Bay at the beginning of the episode when it fails. Or he doesn’t fight the Nausican, keeps his biological heart, and gets to be a Blue shit – the lowest of the low, apparently. But he survives the episode as Captain Picard – something had to be fixed. I assumed Q fixed his failing mechanical heart … but Q could just give him a new biological heart. After all, Q was probably already planning the final episode – omniscient and all. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/32 "2014-01-05T13:36:00Z")
> [@Frazzled](#): > > The biggest plot hole, to me, was the last episode. The time vortex was supposed to get bigger the further into the past that you go. Yet the first time the “future” enterprise visits it it isn’t there because it gets bigger going forwards in time instead of backwards. I enjoyed the last episode, but that part annoyed me too. Especially because Picard figuring it out was supposed to be the proof of humanity’s potential, but he gets it all wrong when he wants to go back and see the anomaly they just created. Q should have wiped out humanity right then and there. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/33 "2014-01-05T13:56:54Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Picard has a biological heart by that episode. Or so someone told me when I noticed the same plot hole. There’s supposed to be a throwaway line at the end of the episode where Picard has a near-death experience with Q referencing the appearance f a new, biological heart. That would make sense, but contradicts what Memory Alpha has in both Picard’s entry and the one on the episode, and that really seems like something they’d include. Also, I would assume that Command (red) is the only division that doesn’t have more peons than leaders, so it’s not surprising he’d still be in science blue in a reality that he never made command in. (What _is_ weird is that he’d answer to Worf, who was head of security at that point.) ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/34 "2014-01-05T20:25:41Z")
Blue shirt Picard doesn’t answer to Worf directly. So that bit of Memory Alpha is wrong. Another bit of that same Memory Alpha article says there’s a cut scene where he reports to Geordi, just like the dialog in the episode – “Mr Picard, this isn’t for me, this is for Cmr LaForge.” According to the cut scenes, Geordi consider Mr Picard much the same as he originally thought of Barclay. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2014, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873/35 "2014-01-05T23:08:35Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > Not only that, but I was under the impression that he only saved Wesley because his mother was on the ship and Picard was responsible (I think) for Jack Crusher’s death. I don’t think it was much different from that time Kirk stopped that planet that was using a computer to simulate the war with another planet from executing the entire crew of the Enterprise when the computer decided they’d taken a fatal hit. You don’t let a culture execute people under your responsibility just because of the Prime Directive. It’s not interfering, it’s self defense. (of course Kirk took it further, and did interfere, citing them being stagnant or something, but that’s how he rolls) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tng-is-there-an-episode-with-a-bigger-plot-hole-than-this/677873.md?page=1)