# ST:TOS episodes you genuinely love that others hold to be mediocre at best **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449 "2015-07-29T04:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/21 "2015-07-29T17:53:56Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > Oh, how could I have forgotten about The Empath!? . I’d blissfully forgotten it too, until you reminded me. BLECH! ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/22 "2015-07-29T17:56:20Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > I actually liked “Miri.” I’m the one person. Something that’s a sticking point for a lot of people - that earth has an exact duplicate - I found rather fascinating. Mathematically, in an infinite universe, there should be infinite earths. Yeah, but the odds of stumbling on another one are still zero. But I like \*Miri \*decently well. I hand-wave the duplicate earth thing away with the belief there’s a reason for it that we never learn. And _Alternative Factor_. Make fun of me. I deserve it. I think the first couple of acts make a decent mystery, and I was young when I first saw it, so the final image of the two Lazaruses engaged in a fight between universes \*forever \*was \*very \*upsetting. _The Empath_ - as someone who can’t hear the difference between “pen” and “pin” (born in Birmingham, Bamalama), I always wondered why McCoy named the empath “Jim.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/23 "2015-07-29T18:03:46Z")
I’m kind of mainstream in that I hate the same episodes everyone else does. 🙂 What’s the verdict on Who Mourns For Adonais? I like that one. Adonais was sort of a tragic figure. He wasn’t a god, he just had a particular skill set that most people don’t and he got used to being worshiped for it. And he didn’t know what to do with his life when people stopped caring. Sounds like every professional sports player. or actor. ---
**Author:** ![Small\_Hen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ad7895/32.png) [@Small\_Hen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Small_Hen)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/24 "2015-07-29T18:15:54Z")
Duplicate post ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/25 "2015-07-29T18:40:10Z")
> [@Your\_Great\_Darsh\_Face](#): > > (Bolding mine) > > No, IIRC “Dagger of the Mind” shows the first appearance of Spock’s ability to mind-meld, and that’s way back in the first half of the first season. However, “The Omega Glory” was one of the alternatives proposed for the second pilot, so that would make it “the first episode written where…” Interestingly, those are the only two episodes that featured guest actor Morgan Woodward, as Simon van Gelder in “Dagger of the Mind,” and as Captain Tracey in “The Omega Glory.” His performance in “The Omega Glory” is strong enough to keep that episode out of the “bad episode” list. It certainly belongs in the “awful script” list, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/26 "2015-07-29T19:21:19Z")
> [@Small\_Hen](#): > > Oh, how could I have forgotten about The Empath!? I remember it, but it still seems pretty bad. I always pictured that some Paramount exec must have had Roddenberry up against a wall & forced him to add his trophy wife as a lead in an episode devoted to her passions: modern dance, fashion design and mime. :smack: “Dammit, I’m a Producer, not a Twyla Tharp Choreographer…! What the Hell am I supposed to do with her!?” "Just Do it. And be grateful that she doesn’t play accordion… * * * There are parts of “And The Children Shall Lead” that I still hate, but its so bad its a natural for MST3K screen heckling. “…Who…has…Summoned…Me…” “I did. Its that Gilligan; he’s broken the professor’s radio and he’s REALLY Pissed…” ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/27 "2015-07-29T19:25:34Z")
I like **Miri** too. Maybe because I was about the age of the kids running around the deserted planet when I watched it. ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/28 "2015-07-29T19:28:04Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’m kind of mainstream in that I hate the same episodes everyone else does. 🙂 > > What’s the verdict on Who Mourns For Adonais? I like that one. Adonais was sort of a tragic figure. He wasn’t a god, he just had a particular skill set that most people don’t and he got used to being worshiped for it. And he didn’t know what to do with his life when people stopped caring. Sounds like every professional sports player. or actor. Nitpick: The character was Apollo. “Adonais” is a Hebrew word meaning gods or deities. I’ve always liked “The Changeling” and “The Tholian Web,” but I’ve never seen either of them on anyone else’s best (or worst) list. “The Lights of Zetar” (written by Shari Lewis and her husband Jeremy Tarcher) has always been my least favorite… though “The Alternative Factor” gets honorable mention for Least Coherent Plot and Most Boring. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/29 "2015-07-29T19:31:17Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That’s a lovely little episode. I love the quadrille near the end, where everybody dances with everyone else’s partner. > > Maybe I was too young when I first saw it, but I’ve never really understood the hate for “Spock’s Brain.” It’s technologically implausible – but if we accept the Transporter, why not a brain transplant? > > Even the episode I detest above all others – “The Omega Glory” – actually has one or two really nice bits. I love it when Cloud William smacks Kirk down with an iron bar to the back of the head, just when Kirk thought he’d made an alliance. Isn’t this also the first episode where Spock exhibits mental powers? [And the caricature of Spock in the Holy Book is too damn precious for words!](http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/1/16/Devil_painting.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110327231841&path-prefix=en) > > (But, gawd, I still hate that damned episode!) Spock displayed mental powers far earlier than that, way near the beginning of the first season in “The Dagger of the Mind.” But “Omega Glory” shows that he is seriously restraining himself. He’s much more powerful than a Betazed; he just has more scruples. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/30 "2015-07-29T19:52:24Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > Nitpick: The character was Apollo. “Adonais” is a Hebrew word meaning gods or deities. You fight my ignorance, Sir. Cecil would be proud! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/31 "2015-07-29T19:55:43Z")
I’m rather fond of “The Way to Eden” (a.k.a. “the one with the space hippies”). Yes, I know, there is a lot of 1960s silliness. But, in between the silly scenes, it does raise some interesting questions about rights and responsibilities, leaders and followers, nature and technology. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/32 "2015-07-29T19:57:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > What’s the verdict on Who Mourns For Adonais? I like that one. Adonais was sort of a tragic figure. He wasn’t a god, he just had a particular skill set that most people don’t and he got used to being worshiped for it. And he didn’t know what to do with his life when people stopped caring. Sounds like every professional sports player. or actor. The original script was better: Caroline was found to be pregnant with Apollo’s child at the end. I always wondered why they cast hot blonde Julie Parrish in that role. The surname “Palomos” clearly indicates that a more “Grecian” character was envisioned.\* \*Yes, I know the Ancient Greeks were a remarkably diverse people, but still… ---
**Author:** ![Cartoonacy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/848f3c/32.png) [@Cartoonacy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartoonacy)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/33 "2015-07-29T20:00:39Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > You fight my ignorance, Sir. > Cecil would be proud! 🙂 Actually, I (and several people I know) thought it was “Who Mourns For _Adonis_?” until a Jewish friend set me straight back in 1990. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/34 "2015-07-29T20:06:14Z")
I can find something to enjoy in every ep, even the bad and the mediocre. Even Lazarus. . . . Sadly…, yes…, even the Space Ghost ep. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/35 "2015-07-29T20:08:06Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > a Jewish friend set me straight back in 1990. “Baruch atah Adonai”, and all that. 🙂 “Blessed are you, our Lord.” ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/36 "2015-07-29T20:09:18Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > 1. Okay at least McCoy tries to sleep leaning against the rock. I guess it’s possible, but Kirk is trying to use the rock as a pillow. Everyone who has ever camped out knows you use your arm or your arm and your shoes as a pillow. A ROCK Kirk?? Actually, contrary to expectation, it seems that many planets are covered in large Styrofoam rocks, so it may be reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/37 "2015-07-29T20:12:51Z")
> [@Cartoonacy](#): > > I’ve always liked “The Changeling” and “The Tholian Web,” but I’ve never seen either of them on anyone else’s best (or worst) list. “The Lights of Zetar” (written by Shari Lewis and her husband Jeremy Tarcher) has always been my least favorite… though “The Alternative Factor” gets honorable mention for Least Coherent Plot and Most Boring. I’ve always thought “Web” was one of the few genuinely good episodes of the third season. IMHO, “Lights” sucked. Not surprising, since it was written by two people who, while they may have been _ **Trek** _ fans, clearly neither knew nor understood science fiction. “The Changeling” wasn’t bad, but I found it hard to believe that (a) Kirk should be so foolish as to reveal his true identity, and (b) NOMAD was so easily tricked into destroying itself (not the first time that happened, either). ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/38 "2015-07-29T20:39:49Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I’m kind of mainstream in that I hate the same episodes everyone else does. 🙂 > > What’s the verdict on Who Mourns For Adonais? I like that one. Adonais was sort of a tragic figure. He wasn’t a god, he just had a particular skill set that most people don’t and he got used to being worshiped for it. And he didn’t know what to do with his life when people stopped caring. Sounds like every professional sports player. or actor. My guess is it would be ranked in the top 50%. I certainly enjoyed it even if the advanced alien posing as a god is an overused theme on Star Trek. BTW, the premier episode of [Star Trek Continues](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_Continues) is a sequel to _Who Mourns For Adonais_ with [Michael Forest](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Forest) reprising his role as Apollo: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/3G-ziTBAkbQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Star Trek Continues E01 "Pilgrim of Eternity"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G-ziTBAkbQ) For a fan produced series, I think they do an awesome job. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/39 "2015-07-29T21:06:27Z")
The only thing that kills me about Who Mourns for Adonais is how close they came to a reasonable and rational agreement. Apollo is the god of reason, right? “Listen, Apollo, we can’t stay here and worship you. But do you know how many billions of people there are in the Federation? Scholars would fight each other with knives to come and listen to you talk about the old times. Neo-Pagans and Mythic Revivalists would sign up by the tens of thousands to come and worship you. You’d have an entire neo-Athenian civilization here, of people who want to come to you. You’ll be part of the Federation. We’ll trade to mutual profit, and we’ll learn from your wisdom. Just not us!” Happiest possible ending, but blown because Kirk wasn’t diplomatic enough and Apollo was impatient. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/40 "2015-07-29T21:11:12Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The only thing that kills me about Who Mourns for Adonais is how close they came to a reasonable and rational agreement. Apollo is the god of reason, right? > > “Listen, Apollo, we can’t stay here and worship you. But do you know how many billions of people there are in the Federation? Scholars would fight each other with knives to come and listen to you talk about the old times. Neo-Pagans and Mythic Revivalists would sign up by the tens of thousands to come and worship you. You’d have an entire neo-Athenian civilization here, of people who want to come to you. You’ll be part of the Federation. We’ll trade to mutual profit, and we’ll learn from your wisdom. Just not us!” > > Happiest possible ending, but blown because Kirk wasn’t diplomatic enough and Apollo was impatient. I’d never considered that until now, but that’s a great ending, right up there with By Any Other Name. “We won’t welcome invaders, but we’ll welcome friends.” It’s the Federation way - beat them, then ask them to join. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449.md?page=3)