# ST:TOS episodes you genuinely love that others hold to be mediocre at best **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449 "2015-07-29T04:28:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/41 "2015-07-29T21:12:01Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > The only thing that kills me about Who Mourns for Adonais is how close they came to a reasonable and rational agreement. Apollo is the god of reason, right? > > “Listen, Apollo, we can’t stay here and worship you. But do you know how many billions of people there are in the Federation? Scholars would fight each other with knives to come and listen to you talk about the old times. Neo-Pagans and Mythic Revivalists would sign up by the tens of thousands to come and worship you. You’d have an entire neo-Athenian civilization here, of people who want to come to you. You’ll be part of the Federation. We’ll trade to mutual profit, and we’ll learn from your wisdom. Just not us!” > > Happiest possible ending, but blown because Kirk wasn’t diplomatic enough and Apollo was impatient. I’m not sure there are any neo-pagans or mythic revivalists left in Kirk’s time. Or much in the way of religion among humans at all. Uhura is the one one who shows much sign of caring about such things; she’s the only one who makes the jump that the Romans in the gladiator episode are talking about the Son of God rather than the Sun god. That episode rocks, by the way. I love how Spock’s combat in the arena consists of him mostly trying to figure out how to defeat a human in pitched combat without breaking any of the human’s bones. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/42 "2015-07-29T21:43:08Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not sure there are any neo-pagans or mythic revivalists left in Kirk’s time. Or much in the way of religion among humans at all. Curious. What evidence of the last 10,000 years gives _any_ indication this might be true? :dubious: 😕 I know Roddenberry was down on religion, but I suspect his hopes for the future (from his point of view) were wildly optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/43 "2015-07-29T21:46:00Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Curious. What evidence of the last 10,000 years gives _any_ indication this might be true? :dubious: 😕 > > I know Roddenberry was down on religion, but I suspect his hopes for the future (from his point of view) were wildly optimistic. The real future, but we’re talking about his made-up future. For Athena’s sake, none of the ships or outposts of the series even has a chaplain. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/44 "2015-07-29T22:03:17Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > For Athena’s sake, none of the ships or outposts of the series even has a chaplain. They all do, but the poor bastards are so depressed about the lack of religion in the twenty-third century and the resultant lack of congregations that they are perpetually intoxicated on altar wine. One doesn’t want to portray that sort of thing on Prime Time. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/45 "2015-07-29T22:13:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > They all do, but the poor bastards are so depressed about the lack of religion in the twenty-third century and the resultant lack of congregations that they are perpetually intoxicated on altar wine. > One doesn’t want to portray that sort of thing on Prime Time. Jock-u-larity! Fact is, the Enterprise has a chapel (and not the one named Christine). Someone in Starfleet thinks starship crew members practice religion, or they wouldn’t waste the space. Maybe there was a chaplain on board, along with crew that fill all the other necessary support jobs, but Desilu didn’t want to pay for another speaking role. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/46 "2015-07-29T23:25:57Z")
Yeah, TOS Ent had a chapel. TNG Ent had the Goddess of Love, thanks to Broccoli. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/47 "2015-07-29T23:40:45Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > I’m not sure there are any neo-pagans or mythic revivalists left in Kirk’s time. . . . They had hippies, didn’t they? Let the word get around that Apollo is out there, waiting for people to come worship him, and the line will be longer than for opening night for Star Wars. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/48 "2015-07-29T23:57:05Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > but Desilu didn’t want to pay for another speaking role. No, he was drunk as an Altarian skunk, and could not be shown on television. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/49 "2015-07-30T00:03:32Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > I’m rather fond of “The Way to Eden” (a.k.a. “the one with the space hippies”). > > Yes, I know, there is a lot of 1960s silliness. But, in between the silly scenes, it does raise some interesting questions about rights and responsibilities, leaders and followers, nature and technology. What I like most about that episode is the message that a philosophy of “give up technology and get back to nature” doesn’t actually make you a better person. There are _TNG_ episodes that suggested it did, as I recall. Well, plus we got to see Skip Homeier play a fanatical murderous hippie, following up his earlier turn in “Patterns of Force” as a fanatical murderous Nazi, which is kinda cool in and of itself. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/50 "2015-07-30T00:10:01Z")
Not having read the thread yet, I don’t know if one of my favorites has been listed, but it’s _Spectre of the Gun_. What boy doesn’t love the story of the gunfight at the OK Corral? And some of the acting is great in my opinion. The Earps and Doc Holliday’s stonefaced almost monotone deliveries make them seem almost robotic, as befits the episode scenario. I love the half finished sets, which added to its eerieness, although of course the real reason was budget cuts. I also liked Bloch’s stories _Catspaw_ and _Wolf in the Fold_, the former scared the shit out of me when I saw it during the original run. I must’ve been about 6, and the phantom witches moaning, “Caaaaptain Kiiiiiirrrrk,” almost gave me nightmares. And there’s nothing wrong with recycling a classic story like “Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper” into _Wolf in the Fold_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/51 "2015-07-30T00:14:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What I like most about that episode is the message that a philosophy of “give up technology and get back to nature” doesn’t actually make you a better person. It doesn’t _automatically_ make you a better person, I’d say. The problem with having a chaplain is that there would be too many confessions to administer to, given the Federation’s diverse population. The solution: Have buttinsky “counselors” instead! Eeeeeeeew! :smack: Better to just stick with ecumenical chapels and drinking buddies. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/52 "2015-07-30T00:16:18Z")
Now that I’ve read the thread, I see it listed. Good for you guys! But no mention of Bloch’s episodes. _The Empath_ was always one of my least favorites because it seemed so damned depressing. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/53 "2015-07-30T00:27:12Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Offhand, the only TOS episode I can think of that I’d call utterly lacking in merit is “The Alternative Factor”. I’ll check a list later for others, but this one specifically irritates me for being so overwrought and underthought. Eh, I dunno, I kind of found the whole “Go insane when you discover another you wandering around out there and then vow to kill him-along with everything else” angle more than a little intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449/54 "2015-07-30T01:47:22Z")
I can generally find something good in all the eps except Spock’s Brain (just too slow)…and “The Children Shall Lead” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-episodes-you-genuinely-love-that-others-hold-to-be-mediocre-at-best/726449.md?page=2)