# ST:TOS Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 11, 2019, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315 "2019-02-11T01:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/21 "2019-02-11T21:57:28Z")
Regarding Kirstie Alley: several sources I can find online have quotes from her indicating that she chose to not appear in _The Search for Spock_ because she was offered the same (or maybe even less) money as she’d made for _The Wrath of Khan_, when she was an unknown, and Saavik’s role in TSfS was going to be even larger than it was in TWoK. Now, those are quotes from decades later, and I have no idea if that was the only reason, but it’s Alley’s stated reasoning. Sources: > **[Catching Up with Kirstie Alley](https://www.startrek.com/article/catching-up-with-kirstie-alley)** > > Catching Up with Kirstie Alley > **[KIRSTIE ALLEY FEELS NO WRATH FOR \`KHAN'](https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1996-03-22-9603220305-story.html)** ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/22 "2019-02-11T22:05:38Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I thought she hadn’t. ISTR there was an issue where Roddenberry wanted her to wear a shorter dress, and she didn’t want to, but that doesn’t seem such a big issue that it would earn her everlasting animosity. Do you know what happened, and what she said about it? She has talked about Star Trek. There are quotes from her in the book \*These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two. - According to the author’s notes, the quotes are from Garr’s autobiography, _Speedbumps: Flooring It Through Hollywood._ ([available on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/Speedbumps-Flooring-Hollywood-Teri-Garr/dp/1594630070/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2W5QYFEAQ3QY9&keywords=teri+garr&qid=1549921992&s=books&sprefix=teri+g%2Caps%2C166&sr=1-1)) and also a book called _Star Trek’s Greatest Guest Stars_. There’s an account of the skirt incident that says Garr limited her reaction to Roddenberry’s dress-tinkering to eye-rolling, but costume designer Bill Theiss argued with Roddenberry about it. Considering some of the costumes Theiss came up with, Roddenberry must have been WAY out of line. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/23 "2019-02-11T22:06:06Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > I haven’t heard anything about Kirstie not playing Saavik again because of Shatner. My impression was he had his hands full putting in his finest performance since the first season of TOS to be a huge pain in the ass. Meyer was riding him to do better, he didn’t worry about his weight. he had tons of acting challenges to satisfy his ego…etc… I read about it in some checkout-line rag, which is why I refer to it as rumor. F’rinstance, it was reported at some point that Shatner stepped on a piece of styrofoam and cried (with his characteristic humor) “Argh! I’ve crushed a ball!” To which Kirstie was said to reply “Too bad it wasn’t one of yours.” FWIW, when Shatner once tried to apologize for any bad feelings on the TOS set, Nichelle Nichols said “Oh, we all hated you!” When told that under the terms of his contract he had owned a piece of the show from the beginning, she said “That explains everything!” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/24 "2019-02-11T22:34:23Z")
There is also heartache toward both of the Roddenberry’s over money and the cast. Many of the cast felt they were underpaid. But Gene and Majel ensured they were paid. While nurse Chapple wasn’t in every episode, the computer voice certainly was, ensuring that she has paid then and in syndication. Alexander Courage wrote the Star Trek theme, and was surprised that he only received half pay for his work. When he asked about it, he was told that the pay check was correct. He’d get half and the writer of the lyrics would get half. Courage, was surprised because there were no lyrics. But Roddenberry wrote lyrics, which were horrid and would never be used, so that he could get half of the royalties. Courage was convinced for the rest of his days that he got screwed. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/25 "2019-02-11T22:37:12Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I will never understand women like Barrett that put up with that kind of crap. But it’s their life. Whatever. Any straight male who says he wouldn’t have liked to bang some of the women who were on _ **Star Trek** _ is either impotent or a big fat liar! (Or maybe a Mormon missionary.) Roddenberry tastes were both Liberal (with a capital L) and catholic (with a small C). He and Nichelle went back to at least 1963, when she was a guest star on _ **The Lieutenant** _. There was also an incident where he was working late at night and made a pass at his secretary. They were getting it on when Barret showed up at his office’s back door at the same moment Mrs Roddenberry (Eileen) started knocking on the front door. Such stories were legendary. At least one writer (I don’t remember which) saw Gene busy with a woman on his couch through the window of his office. “I couldn’t believe it!” he was quoted as saying. “Anybody could have seen them!” Success may allow some people to do things they wouldn’t have done before, but no one turns into a hound dog overnight. It’s a pattern of behavior that goes way back. In my experience, people in a situation like that either remain in it because they (a) enjoy it, (b) figure the benefits outweigh the costs, or (c) both of the above. I’ve known plenty of people for whom (c) was true. It’s my understanding that Roddenberry and Barret truly loved one another (they stayed together until his death, eventually marrying and producing a child), but she was more than willing to accept things the way they were. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/26 "2019-02-11T22:50:14Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > There is also heartache toward both of the Roddenberry’s over money and the cast. Many of the cast felt they were underpaid. But Gene and Majel ensured they were paid. > > While nurse Chapple wasn’t in every episode, the computer voice certainly was, ensuring that she has paid then and in syndication. Alexander Courage wrote the Star Trek theme, and was surprised that he only received half pay for his work. When he asked about it, he was told that the pay check was correct. He’d get half and the writer of the lyrics would get half. Courage, was surprised because there were no lyrics. But Roddenberry wrote lyrics, which were horrid and would never be used, so that he could get half of the royalties. Courage was convinced for the rest of his days that he got screwed. The whole point of Roddenberry creating the series was to ensure he and his heirs would own a valuable property, instead of having to rely on occasional writing assignments for his income. After many years of doing piecework myself, I understand his rationale very well. If you don’t like the paychecks you get as an actor, maybe you should try another line of work. The issue of the theme song lyrics has been dealt with more than once in this forum. My basic view is that if Courage didn’t bother to read the contract before he signed it, it’s his own damned fault. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2019, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/27 "2019-02-11T23:28:43Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Any straight male who says he wouldn’t have liked to bang some of the women who were on _ **Star Trek** _ is either impotent or a big fat liar! Sure I would (well, not Barrett. I just don’t see it.) But you see, I’m not their boss! Sleeping with your employees always creates a power imbalance, and if there is any sense of favoritism, resentment in the other cast. And my point about marrying someone like that - if you think marrying a horndog that sleeps with anything that moves is OK with you, then fine. Who am I to say. But I don’t get why you would think that’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/28 "2019-02-12T00:05:10Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And my point about marrying someone like that - if you think marrying a horndog that sleeps with anything that moves is OK with you, then fine. Who am I to say. But I don’t get why you would think that’s a good idea. Why \*one \*would think that’s a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/29 "2019-02-12T00:47:39Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Any straight male who says he wouldn’t have liked to bang some of the women who were on _ **Star Trek** _ is either impotent or a big fat liar! (Or maybe a Mormon missionary.) Irrelevant; just because a man wants to have sex with somebody doesn’t mean they are irresistibly compelled to harass, pressure or assault them. Not acting on every random impulse is a basic part of civilized behavior; and claiming that men are incapable of civilized behavior is not only a bad excuse, it’s insulting to the entire gender. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/30 "2019-02-12T00:58:01Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Not acting on every random impulse is a basic part of civilized behavior; and **claiming that men are incapable of civilized behavior** is not only a bad excuse, it’s insulting to the entire gender. Who claims that? ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/31 "2019-02-12T01:51:25Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Who claims that? The way I read your previous post, you do. > [@](#): > > Roddenberry had an exceptionally strong libido, so I doubt things ended with the “shorter costume” incident. As if that explains away his casting couch mentality. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/32 "2019-02-12T02:11:38Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > The way I read your previous post, you do. Then you’re reading it wrong. I would never claim that only males are capable of perfidy. > [@](#): > > As if that explains away his casting couch mentality. Uhm, yeah, it does. I think you’re confusing “explain” with “justify.” ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/33 "2019-02-12T03:04:00Z")
[Definition of “explain away”](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/explain%20away) > [@](#): > > transitive verb > > 1 : to get rid of by or as if by explanation > 2 : to minimize the significance of by or as if by explanation > explains his faults, but does not try to explain them away > — M. K. Spears > [@](#): > > Examples of explain away in a Sentence > > after the surprise attack, military leaders struggled to explain away the nation’s unpreparedness > tried to explain away his adulterous affairs by saying that men are promiscuous by nature In short,\* literally \*a textbook example. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/34 "2019-02-12T12:53:24Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > The whole point of Roddenberry creating the series was to ensure he and his heirs would own a valuable property, instead of having to rely on occasional writing assignments for his income. After many years of doing piecework myself, I understand his rationale very well. > > If you don’t like the paychecks you get as an actor, maybe you should try another line of work. > > The issue of the theme song lyrics has been dealt with more than once in this forum. My basic view is that if Courage didn’t bother to read the contract before he signed it, it’s his own damned fault. You seem very eagar to give Roddenerry a pass on his dickish behavior. That’s your call of course. But we’ve all be in situations where we’ve be treated wrongly by others. Either because we were young, though we didn’t deserve better, decided the immediate crapstorm was worth it or we just didn’t have a better option. None of these situations mitigate that someone was an a-hole. Using power over others that have less of it doesn’t mitigate that you’re being a tool. You seem to think that because he got away with it, it was ok for him to be a jerk, but it’s not. The ends do not always justify the means. That shouldn’t be all that hard to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/35 "2019-02-12T18:04:07Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > According to _ **The Making of Star Trek** _ (Whitfield and Roddenberry, 1968), the \*Enterprise \*computer was given a female voice because it was found IRL that they cut through ambient noise better than male voices and ensure shorter response times from both men and women… Michael Crichton mentioned a Strategic Air Command study to that effect in _The Andromeda Strain_ (1969). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/36 "2019-02-12T20:58:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Michael Crichton mentioned a Strategic Air Command study to that effect in _The Andromeda Strain_ (1969). I read somewhere that the audible “Pull up! Pull up!” from aircraft warning systems is female for that reason. OTOH a ham radio operator mentioned to me that women are difficult for him to understand on single side band. I think the reason for a feminine voice is that we are used to obeying our mothers. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/37 "2019-02-12T21:05:55Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > We ALL have exceptionally strong libidos. The ability to control our sexual urges is what separates us from the animals.\* _“Human nature, Mr. Allnot, is what we were put on this earth to rise above.”_ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/38 "2019-02-12T21:23:01Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > _“Human nature, Mr. Allnot, is what we were put on this earth to rise above.”_ “Ah…Dear, what did you say your first name was?” ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/39 "2019-02-12T21:57:46Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I read somewhere that the audible “Pull up! Pull up!” from aircraft warning systems is female for that reason. She’s a female in the Navy. We call her “bitch’n Betty.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315/40 "2019-02-12T22:22:27Z")
> [@spifflog](#): > > She’s a female in the Navy. We call her “bitch’n Betty.” Do sailors talk to their mama like that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-question/829315.md?page=3)