# ST: TOS "The Trouble With Tribbles" nitpick (open spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 9, 2014, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876 "2014-02-09T03:29:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/21 "2014-02-09T04:33:53Z")
> [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > The obvious application of transporter technology to produce copies of anything was not mentioned in TOS. Well, except for Good Kirk/Evil Kirk and a few other transporter accidents. I always wondered about that myself. Why bother to transport anything in bulk when it could be rematerialized at any time by the transporter? A partial answer at least was given in _ **TNG** _’s “Yesterday’s Enterprise”: molecular patterns cannot be stored indefinitely, presumably not even in Picard’s time. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/22 "2014-02-09T04:35:25Z")
(Raises hand again) If the colonists are in danger of starvation wouldn’t: [ol] [li]Transporting already processed foodstuffs[/li][li]Evacuating them [/li][/ol] Be better solutions than transporting grain which will take months to grow and may still be insufficient if the crop fails for some reason? I mean you don’t take seeds to Ethiopia and Somalia and then say “Good luck with the harvest.” You first take food AND then you explore helping their agricultural systems ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/23 "2014-02-09T04:38:36Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > (Raises hand again) If the colonists are in danger of starvation wouldn’t: > > [ol] > [li]Transporting already processed foodstuffs[/li][li]Evacuating them [/li][/ol] > > Be better solutions than transporting grain which will take months to grow and may still be insufficient if the crop fails for some reason? The whole point was that under the terms of the Organian Peace Treaty, Sherman’s Planet would go to whichever side could develop it most efficiently. No way was the Federation going to let it go to the Klingons by default! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/24 "2014-02-09T04:40:53Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Beg to disagree: In “Private Little War,” Kirk specifically asks Scott how long it would take to replicate 100 flintlocks. And in Charlie X, the cooks in the kitchen are startled to find that all of their ovens are filled with turkeys. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/25 "2014-02-09T04:40:59Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Beg to disagree: In “Private Little War,” Kirk specifically asks Scott how long it would take to replicate 100 flintlocks. > [@Typo\_Knig](#): > > At the time of the original broadcast, and in the reruns until STNG, I took that to mean how long would it take their machine shop to produce convincing replicas. The obvious application of transporter technology to produce copies of anything was not mentioned in TOS. Well, except for Good Kirk/Evil Kirk and a few other transporter accidents. Yeah, this is what I was going to say. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/26 "2014-02-09T04:42:18Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > And in Charlie X, the cooks in the kitchen are startled to find that all of their ovens are filled with turkeys. Read Post #20? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/27 "2014-02-09T04:44:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Yeah, this is what I was going to say. Hmmmmm. Would Kirk’s _Enterprise_ be carrying the bulk wood and metal needed to mechanically reproduce 100 flintlocks? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/28 "2014-02-09T04:47:41Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > You don’t have to replicate bread; just grain seeds. > [@terentii](#): > > Yes, but they wouldn’t need to if spaceships (“transports”) could simply beam down replicated seeds. Even in the TNG era they couldn’t replicate living things. And sending down a bunch of dead seeds wouldn’t do the colonists much good. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/29 "2014-02-09T04:48:29Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > I always wondered about that myself. Why bother to transport anything in bulk when it could be rematerialized at any time by the transporter? > > A partial answer at least was given in _ **TNG** _’s “Yesterday’s Enterprise”: molecular patterns cannot be stored indefinitely, presumably not even in Picard’s time. I think you mean _Relics_. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/30 "2014-02-09T04:49:27Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Even in the TNG era they couldn’t replicate living things. Then … how did the transporters work? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/31 "2014-02-09T04:50:46Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I think you mean _Relics_. If that’s the one with Scotty, yes. Thanks for the correction (I’ve only seen it once). ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/32 "2014-02-09T04:53:17Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Then … how did the transporters work? 😕 “Very well” - Data More seriously, it appears they can transport living things but not replicate them; replicating them introduces “single bit errors” that result in the copy being dead and replicated food & drink tasting a little different. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/33 "2014-02-09T04:53:46Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Hmmmmm. Would Kirk’s _Enterprise_ be carrying the bulk wood and metal needed to mechanically reproduce 100 flintlocks? :dubious: It’s a big ship. I see wooden furniture and objects all over the ship (like those data cartridges—those are clearly painted blocks of wood!) and plenty of metallic objects. Ships on long voyages often had woodworking and metalworking shops in the past. Why not in the future? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/34 "2014-02-09T04:57:29Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > More seriously, it appears they can transport living things but not replicate them; replicating them introduces “single bit errors” that result in the copy being dead and replicated food & drink tasting a little different. Okay, but simply storing the molecular patterns in the transporters after dematerializing the original seeds wouldn’t be the same as replicating them from scratch. The only questions would be (a) How long can their patterns be stored in the buffers? and (b) How much energy is available for rematerialization? ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/35 "2014-02-09T05:00:18Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > It’s a big ship. I see wooden furniture and objects all over the ship (like those data cartridges—those are clearly painted blocks of wood!) and plenty of metallic objects. Ships on long voyages often had woodworking and metalworking shops in the past. Why not in the future? Or, they could have simply harvested the wood and metal from the planet … but I don’t think that’s what the Klingons were doing. They could have just beamed everything up … but then why do they need mining operations on other planets? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/36 "2014-02-09T05:02:09Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Okay, but simply storing the molecular patterns in the transporters after dematerializing the original seeds wouldn’t be the same as replicating them from scratch. The only questions would be (a) How long can their patterns be stored in the buffers? and (b) How much energy is available for rematerialization? Also, wouldn’t the transporter’s biofilters have been able to screen out the offending virus? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/37 "2014-02-09T05:02:35Z")
I’m assuming that quadrotriticale has even more gluten than contemporary triticale, so I’d like to see the celiac rates in that century. On another note, Salman Rushdie describes P2C2E–Process Too Complicated To Explain. I believe this is germane to this discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/38 "2014-02-09T05:07:54Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Also, wouldn’t the transporter’s biofilters have been able to screen out the offending virus? :dubious: I don’t think they had biofilters back then. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/39 "2014-02-09T05:08:02Z")
> [@susan](#): > > I’m assuming that quadrotriticale has even more gluten than contemporary triticale, so I’d like to see the celiac rates in that century. Yeah, but it’s the only Earth grain that’ll grow on Sherman’s Planet. Whatchugonnado, huh? ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876/40 "2014-02-09T05:08:55Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Read Post #20? I did; it doesn’t seem to address the point that I was making, which was that although people were arguing that TOS Enterprise was replicating food, the Enterprise had (a) kitchens and (b) cooks, which you wouldn’t need if you were replicating your food. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-tos-the-trouble-with-tribbles-nitpick-open-spoilers/680876.md?page=3)