# ST: Voyager: what were the best and worst episodes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 8, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969 "2010-11-08T22:48:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/61 "2010-11-12T17:08:16Z")
Well, I will certainly concede that Tuvix was a real person. He could have continued to function as a crewmember had he been allowed to live. But his right to continued existence couldn’t trump that of the two people of which he was an involuntary amalgam. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/62 "2010-11-12T18:21:36Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Tuvix was created by a mistake and, although sentient and ordinarily worthy of respect and continued existence otherwise, Janeway reasonably concluded it could not be at the expense of _two_ of her crewmates whose existence predated his, and whose deaths his _continued_ existence would necessarily cause. That is not a reasonable conclusion. People have a right not to be murdered. That right does not vanish just because your death could save the lives of others, not even if their existence predates yours. > [@](#): > > It clearly wasn’t murder, for it was without malice, not for an evil purpose, and was carried out pursuant to Janeway’s lawful authority as C.O. Extracting someone’s organs to save the life of others might be without malice, and might not in your mind be for an evil purpose, but it’s still murder. As for Janeway’s lawful authority, the flaws in how the Federation defines moral behaviour negate the Federation’s moral authority, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/63 "2010-11-12T18:43:41Z")
I guess we’re just going to have to agree to disagree, then. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/64 "2010-11-12T18:45:33Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Extracting someone’s organs to save the life of others might be without malice, and might not in your mind be for an evil purpose, but it’s still murder. I’m lukewarmly on the other side (that Tuvok and Neelix deserved to live again) but recognize that that’s only because I “knew” Tuvok and Neelix longer than Tuvix and that it’s just a fictional show. However, your quoted sentence makes me think of an interesting contrast for this situation. For those who think destroying Tuvix to allow Tuvok and Neelix to live again was the right thing to do, how do you feel about the Vidiians? They were devastated by the Phage and had basically created an entire civilization revolving around stealing the organs of strangers without their consent in order to survive. Given that Neelix lost his lungs to the Vidiians at one point, is their culture of organ theft the right thing to do? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/65 "2010-11-12T19:17:59Z")
It’s the “right” thing for them, but for their victims… not so much. Their victims are also not obliged to accept the Vidiians’ claim, and are entitled to resist with deadly force, if necessary (cultural relativity goes only so far). Tuvix, as either a civilian aboard _Voyager_ or a Starfleet officer, was obliged to accept Janeway’s decision, even under protest, as there was no higher lawful authority capable of being appealed to. But turn it around. Tuvok and Neelix existed before Tuvix. To all intents and purposes, he destroyed _them_ by coming into existence. Their claims to sentient existence predated his. “First in time, first in right” is an ancient doctrine. Restoring them to separate existence was simply restoring the status quo, which he - blamelessly and inadvertently, to be sure - supplanted. I’m gonna have to watch the episode again. Season 2, ep. 24, I see… ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/66 "2010-11-12T19:33:59Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > That is not a reasonable conclusion. People have a right not to be murdered. That right does not vanish just because your death could save the lives of others, not even if their existence predates yours. > > Extracting someone’s organs to save the life of others might be without malice, and might not in your mind be for an evil purpose, but it’s still murder. As for Janeway’s lawful authority, the flaws in how the Federation defines moral behaviour negate the Federation’s moral authority, not the other way around. The situation with Tuvix isn’t really the same as with organ donors. No one can reasonably expect to have rights to my organs as I’m not responsible for their well being, but that wouldn’t be the case if I somehow accidentally gotten their organs for myself and they’re dying because of it. Either way Janeway chooses someone is condemned to death, it’s her duty to resolve the situation with the least amount of casualties. In this unique case the rights of two lives trump the rights of one. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/67 "2010-11-12T20:18:12Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > It’s the “right” thing for them, but for their victims… not so much. Their victims are also not obliged to accept the Vidiians’ claim, and are entitled to resist with deadly force, if necessary (cultural relativity goes only so far). Tuvix, as either a civilian aboard _Voyager_ or a Starfleet officer, was obliged to accept Janeway’s decision, even under protest, as there was no higher lawful authority capable of being appealed to. No, he is not. No matter what God complex Janeway has, Tuvix has no obligation to roll over and die just because she wills it. > [@](#): > > But turn it around. Tuvok and Neelix existed before Tuvix. To all intents and purposes, he destroyed _them_ by coming into existence. No he did not. A _transporter accident_ destroyed them. He is no more responsible for their destruction than the child of a rape is for the circumstances of their creation. > [@](#): > > Their claims to sentient existence predated his. “First in time, first in right” is an ancient doctrine. Restoring them to separate existence was simply restoring the status quo, which he - blamelessly and inadvertently, to be sure - supplanted. I would instead argue that Tuvix’s right to not have his life destroyed trumps their “right” to have their lives saved. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/68 "2010-11-12T23:10:01Z")
Anywho, arguing about Tuvix aside… Two of my fave episodes were: - The one where everyone starts encountering medical problems and Seven uncovers invisible aliens experimenting on them. Even in the future there are conspiracies about aliens secretly experimenting on us! - The episode set on an alien planet that is teaching history about Voyager but in their books the Federation is a warmongering evil race and Janeway a cruel and mercenary force for hire (cue a depiction of what that looks like, it was awesome!). One of the school’s teachers accidentally activates a piece of Voyager technology which has a copy of the Doctor in it and he tries to argue that they’ve formed an incorrect picture of Voyager, that their history books are wrong. A fun episode for the whole completely inverted depiction of how Voyager normally is, and of course a good parable about history always being open to (incorrect) interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/69 "2010-11-13T01:21:56Z")
_Course: Oblivion_, where the crew finds out that they are actually copies from the ‘Demon class’ planet in…er…_Demon_. They start to disintegrate, forcing them to 180 and head back to the Demon planet ASAP. Notable among Voyager eps for _SPOILER_ being one of the few episodes with a downer ending - their ‘message capsule’ to mark their existence malfunctions and is destroyed, and the whole ship is destroyed before they can make it back - leaving the real Janeway to mark a weird grey blob in the vicinity, before moving on. This also means that the alien grey-goop copy of Janeway was doing a better job than the real one… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/70 "2010-11-13T02:50:04Z")
For further discussion of Janeway’s decision in “Tuvix” and to end this hijack: [The ethics of ST:VGR "Tuvix" - Cafe Society - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=585421) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/71 "2010-11-13T03:43:29Z")
I liked the one with the alternate history too. Nice twist, having the Doctor explain what happened from the crews viewpoint. > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Anywho, arguing about Tuvix aside… > > Two of my fave episodes were: > > - The one where everyone starts encountering medical problems and Seven uncovers invisible aliens experimenting on them. Even in the future there are conspiracies about aliens secretly experimenting on us! > > - The episode set on an alien planet that is teaching history about Voyager but in their books the Federation is a warmongering evil race and Janeway a cruel and mercenary force for hire (cue a depiction of what that looks like, it was awesome!). One of the school’s teachers accidentally activates a piece of Voyager technology which has a copy of the Doctor in it and he tries to argue that they’ve formed an incorrect picture of Voyager, that their history books are wrong. A fun episode for the whole completely inverted depiction of how Voyager normally is, and of course a good parable about history always being open to (incorrect) interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/72 "2010-11-13T07:51:46Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > - The one where there were two closely-aligned parallel-universe _Voyager_s, and Harry had to cross over from one to the other as the sole survivor of the doomed one. I liked that episode, but I found it kind of disturbing that the original Harry died during that episode, was replaced by his parallel universe clone, and _nobody ever brought it up again_. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/73 "2010-11-13T10:46:01Z")
> [@Omi\_no\_Kami](#): > > I liked that episode, but I found it kind of disturbing that the original Harry died during that episode, was replaced by his parallel universe clone, and _nobody ever brought it up again_. :smack: I think it was once in a throw-away line about Harry dying more than anyone else on the ship. It’s true, he’s died so many times I lost count - he must have some kind of permadeath resistance. ---
**Author:** ![Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f08c70/32.png) [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crowbar_of_Irony_3)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/74 "2010-11-13T10:59:00Z")
One more I would like to add to the “best” list is _In the Blink of an Eye_, where Voyager is trapped in the orbit of a planet with dense gravity and time passed way faster on the planet than in orbit. They are able to observe the growth of an alien civilization from stone age to warp capable in just a few _days_. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/75 "2010-11-13T11:43:03Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I think it was once in a throw-away line about Harry dying more than anyone else on the ship. It’s true, he’s died so many times I lost count - he must have some kind of permadeath resistance. He also gets to bed more alien women than anyone since Cmdr. Riker, maybe that’s his payback. Although he also seems to get more alien STDs, which frequently seem to lead to his violent and painful death. I seem to recall him serving with Captain Riker after they got home- I always kind of assumed that Riker secretly hired him on reputation alone, so he could test new and interesting alien species for dangerous compatibility issues before Riker himself beamed down. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/76 "2010-11-13T13:05:02Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > I think it was once in a throw-away line about Harry dying more than anyone else on the ship. It’s true, he’s died so many times I lost count - he must have some kind of permadeath resistance. Not according to the Memory Alpha page for Deadlock (the episode in question)…excluding the Silver Blood, MA claims that Deadlock is the second of only two times Harry ‘died’ (the first in Emanations) - but the first of ‘many times’ for Janeway. Sadly, they don’t actually enumerate Janeway’s deaths, and I’m completely blanking on any except Deadlock and Year of Hell (which is listed as the 5th time, again, presumably, excluding the Silver Blood duplicate). OK, and Before and After, the first episode of the Year of Hell arc, while I’m there. [Edit - slight correction to the above - whoever edited the Deadlock page apparently made a mistake…apparently the episode Timeless marks Harry’s third death - and Janeway’s sixth.] ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/77 "2010-11-13T14:25:40Z")
Well, thanks for counting - but Harry has still died two more times than a person is supposed to in life. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/78 "2010-11-13T16:02:20Z")
> [@Crowbar\_of\_Irony\_3](#): > > One more I would like to add to the “best” list is _In the Blink of an Eye_, where Voyager is trapped in the orbit of a planet with dense gravity and time passed way faster on the planet than in orbit. They are able to observe the growth of an alien civilization from stone age to warp capable in just a few _days_. Ooo, yes, that was cool. _Voyager_’s reflection in orbit, observed from the surface, actually inspires a renaissance among the alien race. Later an alien astronaut comes aboard _Voyager_ and finds everyone motionless, because through some technobabble the astronaut is able to maintain his own very fast passage of time. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/79 "2010-11-13T16:57:18Z")
I’ve been trying to remember. Was there a mirror universe episode of Voyager? The mirror universe thing started with the Original series. Spock in a beard. A parallel existence where the Federation is evil. We recently talked about in in the Uhra thread. They followed up in Ds9 withe several mirror universe episodes. The first being one where O’Brian is a slave and Sisko is a smuggler/lover of the space station’s female ruler. I don’t think Voyager or TNG had a mirror episode. Maybe someone has a better memory. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2010, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969/80 "2010-11-13T17:58:50Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve been trying to remember. Was there a mirror universe episode of Voyager? No, TOS, DS9 and ENT are the only series that did mirror universe episodes. (Outside the comic books, in which there is at least one mirror universe story involving Picard (though that’s pre-TNG era, when he was still an [del]Ensign[/del]Lieutenant…at least at the start of the story).) Mirror Tuvok appeared in the second DS9 mirror episode. I don’t think any of the other Voyager characters’ mirror counterparts showed up. Voyager’s premise, and the canon status quo of the mirror universe by the time of the series, made them rather hard to mesh - though it would be interesting, given that the Cardassians are one of the oppressors of the former Empire, and the anti-Cardassian Maquis are a major element of Voyager. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/st-voyager-what-were-the-best-and-worst-episodes/559969.md?page=5)