# Staffing rotas on Star Trek star-ships **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [December 12, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425 "2022-12-12T23:05:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/101 "2022-12-15T16:40:34Z")
> [@Dorjan](#): > > They would have attended Starfleet Academy, which is still overwhelmingly human, and went through the ranks in mostly human-crewed ships. _Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country_ gets this right, at least: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uK2YyfJAdGo/maxresdefault.jpg "Star Trek -- A Long Way to Go") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK2YyfJAdGo) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/102 "2022-12-15T17:45:39Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > > [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](#): > > > > circadian rhythm > > It’s not just a matter of circadian rhythms, though, there’s also social rhythms. We’re seen that the Enterprise has an extensive social scene, with concerts, plays, and other events happening pretty regularly. These people live a whole life on board the ship. > > So it would suck to be stuck on a shift where you always miss the big social events And just duplicating the event for every shift introduces its own problems. “Man, the Beta Shift _MacBeth_ sucks!” Well, sure, but that’s no different than being unable to see a concert or play, because you have to work, in real life. According to Memory Alpha, the _Enterprise_ carried a crew complement of 1,000 to 6,000, plus their families - figure 4,000 to 10,000 people aboard. At any one time, one-third of them will be in their “daytime” (on watch, at work, in school, whatever), one-third will be asleep and one-third will be in their “evening” cycle. That’s enough people to socialize with or put together events. > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > But they do. (well, internal cues). > > It’s been canon since 1966 that the ship dims the interior lights during “night”. Except on the bridge of course. Oh? I didn’t know that. But that seems pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/103 "2022-12-15T19:19:58Z")
> [@bump](#): > > It’s flat-out stupid to disrupt all that if they’re expecting to “get into combat on a moment’s notice”- > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And the first thing they did was disobey a direct order, and go cry to each other about the new captain. The disruption served a purpose, _precisely because_ this guy was known to be a short-term captain of the ship. He knew they were likely going to be in a fight soon, and he couldn’t risk the crew taking time to look to Riker to see if this order is a “real” order that they should follow, or just a pointless “order” that Captain Picard will reverse as soon as he gets back. The crew needed to know, in no uncertain terms, that the new guy was the Captain, and that his orders needed to be followed - because sometimes even a few seconds hesitation could mean the destruction of the ship. The new guy didn’t have the luxury of a few months, or even weeks, of “getting to know each other” time. So he went hard-assed, which had the benefit of getting his point across to those smug Enterprise bastards who weren’t professional enough to understand what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/104 "2022-12-15T19:35:56Z")
One thing I’ve noticed is the various Star Trek shows pay lip-service to how mind-mindbogglingly huge space is, but this is very rarely ever depicted. You’ll hear there’s a distress call on some planet, then Data says it’ll take three days to reach the planet at maximum warp, then the next scene is the Enterprise arriving. During those three days, it’s watch rotation and business as usual. Some episodes are worse than others, especially when you consider characters taking multi-day shuttle rides or a scene cut that elides a week of travel where nothing gets resolved during the off-screen time. In their defense, there’s no good way around this. Either you have something like a realistic (and reminiscent of Earth’s oceans) travel time between ports or you have JJ Abrams “3 minutes of warp between Earth and Vulcan” nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/105 "2022-12-15T19:40:15Z")
> [@Mr.E](#): > > In their defense, there’s no good way around this. Either you have something like a realistic (and reminiscent of Earth’s oceans) travel time between ports or you have JJ Abrams “3 minutes of warp between Earth and Vulcan” nonsense. Well, you know what they say, “The needs of the drama outweigh the needs of the facts.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/106 "2022-12-15T20:00:55Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > “The needs of the drama outweigh the needs of the facts.” Or the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/107 "2022-12-15T21:12:00Z")
And starships (one word, no hyphen), like turbolifts, travel at the speed of plot. I agree that Capt. Jellico was in the right in his little battle of wills (heh) with Riker & Co., but he could have been a bit more tactful about it. > [@DPRK](#): > > > [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > > > …We also learn that Riker — with the rank of only Commander, not post-captain — turned down command of his own vessel, because apparently nothing except a _Galaxy_-class ship of the line was good enough for him. Clearly the man does not quite have a grasp of how things work, and apparently someone in Starfleet has been letting him get away with “turning down” orders… C’mon, now. He’s _offered_ command of other ships, not ordered to take command of them. And it’s specifically mentioned that he’s running the risk of career stagnation if he does it too often. Starfleet clearly doesn’t have the up-or-out mentality of the current U.S. military; Roddenberry thought that personal fulfillment and self-realization were more worthy goals in Picard’s day. And I don’t think it had anything to do with the size or power of the ship. Riker obviously loved serving with, and learning from, Picard, so that’s what he did for longer than we might think appropriate. But until _ordered_ to do something else, that was his call. And as it happens, the USS _Titan_, the command of which he eventually accepted, was smaller than the _Galaxy_-class _Enterprise_. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/108 "2022-12-15T22:24:21Z")
It could be that is how it works in Starfleet. I was thinking of how e.g. Capt. Aubrey’s promotion+orders were formulated: > [@](#): > > Whereas Captain Samuel Allen of His Majesty’s Sloop _Sophie_ is removed to the _Pallas,_ Captain James Bradby deceased — You are hereby required and directed to proceed on board the Sophie and take upon you the Charge and Command of Commander of her; willing and requiring all the Officers and Company belonging to the said Sloop to behave themselves in their several Employments with all due Respect and Obedience to you their Commander; and you likewise to observe as well the General Printed Instructions as what Orders and Directions you may from time to time receive from any your superior Officer for His Majesty’s Service. Hereof nor you nor any of you may fail as you will answer the contrary at your Peril. > > And for so doing this shall be your Order. Given on board the _Foudroyant_ at sea, 1st April, 1800. > > To John Aubrey, Esqr, hereby appointed Commander of His Majesty’s Sloop _Sophie_ By command of the Admiral Thos Walker. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/109 "2022-12-15T23:05:27Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > It could be that is how it works in Starfleet. I was thinking of how e.g. Capt. Aubrey’s promotion+orders were formulated: Yeah, but if you’re judging Starfleet by the standards of an 19th century wet navy, a more salient complaint would the lack of 13 year-olds holding officer rank, or the way they just let all these women on the ships like they belong there. Hell, did Picard actually pay anyone for his officer’s commission, or did they just _give_ it to him? Ideas about how to properly run a military force have changes a lot over the years, and are no doubt going to keep changing in the future. Presenting a world where “up or out” is no longer considered the best way to run a navy isn’t a plot hole. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/110 "2022-12-15T23:21:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Presenting a world where “up or out” is no longer considered the best way to run a navy isn’t a plot hole. I could accept that during normal times, but not just after the fleet was devastated by the Borg. Riker hanging around the Enterprise as first officer would be like a Commander in the US Navy just after Pearl Harbor saying, “Nah, I don’t _feel_ like commanding that new cruiser”. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.E](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.e/32/8932_2.png) [@Mr.E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.E)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2022, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/111 "2022-12-15T23:38:50Z")
In The Best of Both Worlds there’s a scene between Commander Shelby and Commander Riker where she points out that having him stick around as XO for years is denying other worthy Starfleet officers the chance to learn what he’s learned, and I think that’s a good point. Navy shipboard tours generally last 3-5 years, with officer tours tending to be shorter than enlisted. Riker’s “personal fulfillment” be damned, Picard could have trained a dozen senior officers during his extended tour as Captain, who would have gone on to captain their own ships and train even more officers the Picard way. One thing that IS realistic is after Picard retires there’s almost nobody in Starfleet who gives a shit about him because outside his small inner circle not many people served under or with him. Maybe if Riker and the gang had gotten out of the way Picard would have had an easier time getting Starfleet support for the Romulan evacuation and his other late-career projects. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/112 "2022-12-16T18:01:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > a more salient complaint would the lack of 13 year-olds holding officer rank Let me introduce you to Wesley Crusher. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/113 "2022-12-16T21:05:45Z")
Come on, some of these things have to be conceded to the realities of serial television. Such as Riker refusing promotions. Or the senior staff always being on duty whenever anything interesting happens. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/114 "2022-12-16T21:40:20Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Come on, some of these things have to be conceded to the realities of serial television. That’s the boring Doylist explanation. We’re looking for Watsonian explanations here. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/115 "2022-12-16T21:56:00Z")
In Star Trek VI, Ensign Slater wakes Captain Sulu up in the middle of the night to relay a message from the Enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/116 "2022-12-16T21:56:48Z")
I’ll always be a Doylist because Watson is fictional. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2022, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/117 "2022-12-16T23:53:34Z")
Well, so you say but according to [this documentary](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096454/) it is actually Holmes that is a fictional creation of the real Dr. Watson (“The Crime Doctor!”). Stranger ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/118 "2022-12-23T04:13:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Hell, did Picard actually pay anyone for his officer’s commission, or did they just _give_ it to him? In defense of the Royal Navy, while patronage and nepotism certainly helped, the purchasing of commissions was strictly an army affair. And in theory, even the most well-connected of young gentlemen would have to at least pass an examination for Lieutenant before choice assignments and ensuing promotion opportunities could be worked strictly through influence campaigns. Although how difficult such an examination might be could vary (if memory serves, Horatio Nelson had an uncle or similar relation on his board, but then again his uncle is supposed to have _insisted_ he did not tell any of his fellow board members beforehand. Honest—anyway Nelson turned out alright in the end). I’ll always have a soft spot for the short story from Midshipman Hornblower depicting one such factionalized account. Reminds me of the boards I had to go through for OOD/SWO on my first ship (the command climate was toxic as hell, and sometimes they really _did_ try us in batches like the French tribunals). > [@Horatius](#): > > I could accept that during normal times, but not just after the fleet was devastated by the Borg. Riker hanging around the Enterprise as first officer would be like a Commander in the US Navy just after Pearl Harbor saying, “Nah, I don’t _feel_ like commanding that new cruiser”. If anything, it’s the idea that significant ship losses could be made up for inside of a decade or more that should be seen as unrealistic. In this day and age, the unplanned loss of so many ships would likely greatly reduce the opportunities for operational command, not increase it. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/119 "2022-12-23T18:31:51Z")
Hm. Maybe Riker’s lying about turning down an offer of command, and Starfleet gave the command of the fewer available ships to other officers. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425/120 "2022-12-23T18:35:43Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > Hell, did Picard actually pay anyone for his officer’s commission, or did they just _give_ it to him? > > In defense of the Royal Navy, while patronage and nepotism certainly helped, the purchasing of commissions was strictly an army affair. And anyway, Picard is French, not English! … usually … sometimes … [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staffing-rotas-on-star-trek-star-ships/976425.md?page=7)