# Staight = not gay **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 29, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549 "2007-07-29T00:46:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/1 "2007-07-29T00:46:45Z")
_Well they feed us lousy chow but we stay alive somehow On dehydrated eggs and milk and stew. The rumour has it next They’ll be dehydrating sex. That’s the day I tell the coach I’m through For I’ve managed all the dangers. The shooting back at strangers But when I get home late **I want my woman straight** , Buster_ The innocent interpretation is that the man singing the song wants his woman ‘straight’ in the same way he likes his whiskey: Unadulterated (heh). That is, 100% woman. (Or he doesn’t want a woman who’s been dried out and re-moistened.) But the obvious, now, interpretation is that he wants a heterosexual woman. This ditty was written in WWII. Did ‘straight’ mean ‘not gay’ in WWII? Or is it a later usage? If the former, when did ‘straight’ get that meaning? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/2 "2007-07-29T00:57:12Z")
I doubt it. WWII is about the time that “straight” and “gay” began to take on their current meaning, but it was probably not very mainstream at that time. [Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosexuality#History_and_demographics). ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/3 "2007-07-29T12:15:31Z")
“Gay” had homosexual connotations well before WW2 although, as you say, mainstream America wouldn’t have been very clued in. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/4 "2007-07-29T12:53:15Z")
Straight as in dope ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/5 "2007-07-29T12:57:11Z")
One of the meanings is: without personal embellishments, additions, or put into proper form or condition. So no dehydrated sex, he wants a girl the way she’s supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/6 "2007-07-29T13:11:56Z")
The little deconstructionist in me screaming to get out wants to say that “when I get home late I want my woman straight” means that the male has certain prerogatives (what used to be called cattin’ around) that he is not about to grant the female (who had better stay loyal). Of course, in the 1940s, the little deconstructionist in me would have been cruising for a beatdown, so YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/7 "2007-07-29T13:20:50Z")
The OED says it originally means “socially respectable.” By 1941, it meant “heterosexual.” > [@OED](#): > > d. slang (orig. U.S.). Conventional, respectable, socially acceptable. Also spec. (a) heterosexual; not practising sexual perversions; (b) not using or under influence of drugs; sober, abstinent. > > 1941 G. W. HENRY Sex Variants II. 1176 Straight… Also employed as meaning not homosexual. To go straight is to cease homosexual practices and to indulge – usually to re-indulge – in heterosexuality. Judging by the definition here, it appears to be related to somone “going straight” that you’d hear in 30s movies concerning ex-gangsters (That use dates back to 1853). The idea was that a homosexual who went back to being heterosexual was similar to a criminal who went back to a conventional life. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/8 "2007-07-29T15:36:48Z")
Any chance he’s meaning it as short for “straightaway?” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/9 "2007-07-29T15:39:58Z")
I have a 1941 book in which a picture illustrating the story is captioned “ pretends to be gay.” Gay here means of course cheerful. It looks humorous from a modern perspective, but only the tiniest slice of the audience would have seen a double meaning in it at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/10 "2007-07-29T17:28:10Z")
I think I’ve encountered “straight” as a synonym for “square” - someone who doesn’t enjoy the hip stuff in life like jazz or beat poetry or reefer. Basically, as short for “straightlaced”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/11 "2007-07-29T18:46:13Z")
[QUOTE=RealityChuck] The OED says it originally means “socially respectable.” By 1941, it meant “heterosexual.” [/QUOTE] Not really, though. It seems to have meant pretending to be heterosexual or becoming heterosexual, but not necessarily being heterosexual form the get go. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/12 "2007-07-29T19:28:15Z")
Well, yes. The concept was that homosexuality was a choice, and you went straight when you decided to choose otherwise (like you went straight if you decided to give up a life of crime). But it’s clear that this transferred to mean heterosexuals in general, much like the slang “gay” transferred to mean homosexuals in general. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/13 "2007-07-29T19:53:43Z")
And I have to wonder if there was a time lag in using the terms “gay” and “straight” to describe women. Let’s not forget that the OP is talking about a reference to a woman. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/14 "2007-07-29T19:56:08Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Let’s not forget that the OP is talking about a reference to a woman. [/QUOTE] That’s true, but I was actually wondering when ‘straight - not gay’ was first used, and when it became common. I had no thought about gender. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/15 "2007-07-29T20:53:09Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] And I have to wonder if there was a time lag in using the terms “gay” and “straight” to describe women. [/QUOTE] Non-heterosexual women, from my reading, referred to themselves largely interchangeably as “lesbian” or “gay” (or specifically “gay girls” in many references) through the 40s, 50s and 60s. The use of the word “lesbian” started becoming more exclusive with the rise of the women’s movement and lesbian separatism. Now I think we’re back to a lot more interchangeable or women preferring in some instances “gay” over “lesbian.” I think it was spurred in large measure by Ellen Degeneres’ famous “Yep, I’m Gay” Time magazine cover but of course I have no particular cite for that. But woe betide any person or organization who leaves the “L” out of “LGBT” in anything official or important! ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/16 "2007-07-29T21:16:02Z")
I’m pretty sure it means “without anything else.” As in, “whiskey, straight up, please.” Or to put it another way, not with any male tendencies. During the war, many women learned they were called upon to (and could) do things that before were “unfeminine” and socially prohibited (essentially doing typically male jobs, like working in factories, construction, etc.). It’s an anti-Rosie the Riveter statement. Not so much about sexuality as about “I want to return to the U.S. status quo I left before I was sent to the south Pacific, to kill or be killed by people I’d never even thought about before…” ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/17 "2007-07-29T21:23:21Z")
As recently as 1977 “straight” still had the alternative meanings of: • part of the “establishment”, aka “square”, not “hip”, not “countercultural” • not a stoner; doesn’t smoke marijuana, doesn’t drop LSD • not currently at this specific moment stoned, drunk, or tripping; sober See for instance Hole, “Credit in the Straight World”. I don’t think Courtney Love meant the world of breeders had just issued her a Visa card. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/18 "2007-07-29T21:34:20Z")
Jeez. To me the lyric seems to pretty clearly be a riff on all the lousy food the GIs ate: eggs, milk, stew, etc. When he gets home, he doesn’t want a reconstituted woman, too. He wants a woman without added water; c.f. _straight whisky_. I suppose that the rhyme scheme could have been altered to use _neat_ instead, but that would open up a new set of double meanings. Not to say that we can’t have a chuckle about the modern double meaning, but the previous lines keep referring to unpleasant dehydrated things, including dehydrated sex, which I’ve got to imagine is pretty crummy. He’s not complaining about how mannish the European women are, or anything like that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/19 "2007-07-29T21:48:47Z")
[QUOTE=brossa] Jeez. To me the lyric seems to pretty clearly be a riff on all the lousy food the GIs ate: eggs, milk, stew, etc. [/QUOTE] Yes. I only included that because it is what made me wonder about the question. I could have phrased it better. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549/20 "2007-07-29T21:51:12Z")
[QUOTE=Johnny L.A.] That’s true, but I was actually wondering when ‘straight - not gay’ was first used, and when it became common. I had no thought about gender. [/QUOTE] As **AHunter3** notes, while the meanings of straight and gay have included references to sexuality since the 1930s and 1940s, they were very definitely not in the mainstream. And they took on addition meanings in the same order: gay came to mean homosexual _within the gay community_ in the 1930s, generally, with a few earlier but uncommon references, then straight took on the meaning of “not gay” _within the homosexual community_ in the 1940s. Gay = homosexual did not make it into general society until the early 1970s (although there are references–probably confusing to the genreal public–a bit earlier, and then straight entered the general public as more gay speakers used the term in broader society. A 1941 song associated with the military would not have used straight to mean heterosexual. Heterosexuality would have been the presumed situation in that context with homosexuality being identified with strong pejoratives such as queer, faggot, or dyke. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/staight-not-gay/413549.md?page=2)