# Stairway to Heaven IS Tolkien related!! (LONG) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 20, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927 "2002-07-20T03:31:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![NewUser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NewUser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewUser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/1 "2002-07-20T03:31:29Z")
Since its release in 1971, the meaning of Stairway to Heaven has been to subject to one of the greatest debates in the history of mankind. Now it is solved… 😃 Many people have alleged that Stairway to Heaven is not about the Tolkien book The Lord of the Rings but have given no reasons or incite about what the song is actually about. If not Lord of the Rings, then what is it about? Lets examine the facts. FACT: Robert Plant, the lead singer of Led Zeppelin, wrote many songs about the Tolkien mythos including: Ramble On, Over the Hills and Far Away, and Kashmir FACT: The songs before AND after Stairway are about Lord of the Rings; Battle of Evermore and Misty Mountain Hop. FACT: In the song Battle of Evermore, the first line is undisputedly referring to Galadriel “Queen of Light took her bow, And then she turned to go”, and YET, in the VERY next song, Stairway, it is claimed that a very similar line is for some reason not referring to the elven queen, Galadriel. “There walks a lady we all know Who shines white light and wants to show”. In the book, it is stated on page 381, it says of Galadriel, “She lifted up her hand and from the ring that she wore there issued a great light that illumined her alone and left all else dark." hmm… it makes me wonder FACT: In the book, LotR, in the first line of a very important poem which occurs in the book several times begins with “All that is gold does not glitter”; Stairway begins with the line “theres a lady who’s sure ALL THAT GLITERS IS GOLD”. hmm. it really makes me wonder ASSUMTION: If the lady in the song is Galadriel, which it probably is, perhaps what shes buying is a heaven like state of golden youthfulness for her and for her people of Lothlorien. ASSUMTION: In the book they say that Galadriel lived next to a river and sang the most beautiful songs of all. “In a tree by the brook, there’s a songbird who sings” FACT: It is a common sentiment in the book to be homesick for wonderful places in the west, for Galadriel it would mean the western land of Valinor where the elves and wizards came from and where gandolf, elrond, and Galadriel eventually went. “There’s a feeling I get when I look to the west, And my spirit is crying for leaving.” ASSUMTION: “In my thoughts I have seen rings of smoke through the trees, And the voices of those who standing looking.” The rings of smoke are either referring to the smoke rings that gandolf blew or the destruction of the forests of mirkwood by sarumon. The things that stand looking are probably referring to the ents. FACT: Aragorn was the heir to the throne of Gondor whos strength was represented by the horn of gondor who after becoming king rekindles an era of peace and reason. “And it’s whispered that soon if we all call the tune Then the piper will lead us to reason.” Which means that if they all follow Aragorn…the piper… then a new day will come. “And a new day will dawn for those who stand long And the forests will echo with laughter.” ASSUMTION: this line “Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.” is referring to how galadriel’s unaging lothlorien …heaven… ended. FACT: It is a reoccurring theme in LotR that greed and fear can corrupt even the best people…borimir…“And as we wind on down the road Our shadows taller than our soul.” Everything that i have heard throughout my life has gone against this theory but for no apparent reason. Now i have given you proof to substantiate my theory. So can anyone think of any objections or for that matter contributions to this theory? thanks, bill ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/2 "2002-07-20T03:36:45Z")
I think you need for job responsabilities… ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/3 "2002-07-20T03:36:56Z")
I think you need additional job responsabilities… ---
**Author:** ![guitarguy471](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@guitarguy471](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guitarguy471)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/4 "2002-07-20T03:37:21Z")
Wow bill, you really know your stuff. I too thought that it was about this and when i was researching it all i found was to the negative of the theory. this website agrees with the theory… [http://www.auburn.edu/~speedhe/](http://www.auburn.edu/~speedhe/) It interests me because not long ago (within a month from now), i looked at the site and it said that it was definatly NOT about lord of the rings…while now as you can see it has plainly changed views. AUSTIN ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/5 "2002-07-20T03:38:09Z")
Doh… ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/6 "2002-07-20T06:37:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bdgr \* > \*\*I think you need additional job responsabilities… \*\* That’s rude. What do YOU do with your spare time besides castigate new posters (and taking 3 posts to do it) for writing something interesting? NewUser, don’t listen to bdgr. I’m a newbie to Tolkien (thanks to the movie, which got me to read the books) but have loved Led Zep since back in the day. I find your post fascinating and I’ll have it in mind the next time I hear the song. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Nenya\_Elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ea5d25/32.png) [@Nenya\_Elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nenya_Elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/7 "2002-07-20T10:51:34Z")
Hmmm, very interesting. Except that Aragorn wasn’t really a piper or hornblower–wasn’t it Boromir who had the great horn of Gondor? The stuff about Galadriel sounds convincing, though, especially the part about looking to the West. That is a huge theme in LotR for the Elves, especially those in Lothlorien. I have actually never heard this song but if I ever hear it I will listen for the Lothlorien overtones you suggest here. From my screenname I suppose you can guess that I’m a LotR fan. 🙂 Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/8 "2002-07-20T13:32:37Z")
I’ve always understood that _Stairway to Heaven_ was a hodgepodge of references to Celtic mythology, with no real cohesion or meaning. Robert Plant has said as much in interviews. That Tolkien used similar mythos in the LotR books means that the two are going to have parallels, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the _Stairway_ is based on LotR. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/9 "2002-07-20T14:28:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nenya\_Elizabeth \* > **I have actually never heard this song…** :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/10 "2002-07-20T15:36:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nenya\_Elizabeth \* > \*\*I have actually never heard this song but if I ever hear it I will listen for the Lothlorien overtones you suggest here. From my screenname I suppose you can guess that I’m a LotR fan. 🙂 > > Interesting. \*\* Nenya - really? You have never heard Stairway to Heaven? Wow! Check it out, you are in for a treat. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/11 "2002-07-20T15:40:13Z")
NewUser, an interesting thread. I’m not yet convinced, but it is interesting - thanks for starting it ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/12 "2002-07-20T15:44:21Z")
It sounds to me like Robert Plant had so thoroughly absorbed Tolkien’s works that it’s impossible to definitively state which of his songs were influenced by him. There are songs which mention characters from Tolkien but otherwise would be unrecognizable as being influenced by him if the song hadn’t used the names of the characters. There are also songs like “Stairway to Heaven” with vague references to events in Tolkien but which combine these references in ways that don’t coherently fit into the plot of _The Lord of the Rings_. Weirdly, I think Plant’s knowledge of Tolkien was both superficial and deep. Deep, because Plant had apparently read Tolkien enough times that he was probably no longer certain when he was quoting Tolkien. Superficial, because he apparently didn’t know much about the mythological and religious traditions that Tolkien was drawing from. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/13 "2002-07-20T15:52:24Z")
> [@](#): > > FACT: The songs before AND after Stairway are about Lord of the Rings; Battle of Evermore and Misty Mountain Hop. “Misty Mountain Hop” is not in any meaningful way “about” _Lord of the Rings_. In fact, the words “Misty Mountains” are the only connection to LOTR. The song is about San Francisco hippies. ---
**Author:** ![NewUser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NewUser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewUser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/14 "2002-07-20T18:24:45Z")
FACT: If you follow the link that guitar guy gave, they suggest parreles between tolkien and misty mountain hip aside from the name, but at the very least the song refers to tolkienology. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/15 "2002-07-20T18:28:34Z")
I read the link. It’s unconvincing regarding that song, to say the least. > [@](#): > > The song “Misty Mountain Hop” for example has alot more allusions to tolkien then just the last stanza. The whole song is a parallel story about a young boy in his first acid trip, and the meeting of the dwarves and Bilbo befor they begen there quest. For example the line “they asked us to stay for tea and have some fun…” this is a parallel to the tea party in Bilbo’s hobbit hole. The whole song is a metaphor for the begining of “the Hobbit” Uh . . . “tea” is slang for marijuana. Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. ---
**Author:** ![NewUser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NewUser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewUser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/16 "2002-07-20T18:32:28Z")
yeah the link really isnt that great. But the NAME OF THE SONG is in reference to tolkien right? A little bit? ---
**Author:** ![NewUser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NewUser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewUser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/17 "2002-07-20T18:35:53Z")
Anyway my third fact is almost undeniable, many times in the book Galadiel is refered to a the “Lady of light” or some such and she specifically shines white light in at least one scene and even gave a shining white light thingy so Frodo. WHO ELSE COULD IT BE? ---
**Author:** ![NewUser1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f1d935/32.png) [@NewUser1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NewUser1)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/18 "2002-07-20T18:54:31Z")
Oh and the full text of Stairway to heaven can be found here [http://www.led-zeppelin.com/EMl4.html](http://www.led-zeppelin.com/EMl4.html) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/19 "2002-07-20T19:10:51Z")
I’ll certainly agree that the song has Tolienesque influences (“As I look to the West”, for instance), but saying that that’s what it’s _about_? There are too many little things which don’t fit, but which would if it were about LotR. First of all, there’s a **huge** difference between “All that is gold does not glitter” and “All that glitters is gold”. The latter is far too shallow a view for someone as wise as Galadriel. She knows darn well that there are many things which glitter, gold the least of them. And “buying” a stairway to Heaven? I could accept that as reffering to Lothlorien if it were “building”, but not “buying”. Elves aren’t really all that concerned with money and the like. Usually, they’re giving and receiving things as gifts, and when they do engage in commerce, it’s generally trade, not buying. Also, in your analysis, you have things like > [@](#): > > The rings of smoke are either referring to the smoke rings that gandolf blew or the destruction of the forests of mirkwood by sarumon. When you can find two such completely disparate meanings to the same line, it’s usually a sign that the meaning is coming from you, and not from the line you’re referencing. It wouldn’t make sense for the song to mean _both_ things, so at least one of those interpretations must be from your own imagination. Given that you’re capable of imagining one meaning, it’s simplest to assume that you’re capable of imagining both. ---
**Author:** ![WSLer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a6a055/32.png) [@WSLer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WSLer)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2002, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927/20 "2002-07-20T19:30:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NewUser1 \* > **FACT: Robert Plant, the lead singer of Led Zeppelin, wrote many songs about the Tolkien mythos including: Kashmir** No. Wrong. Not even close. Kashmir was inspired by Plants travels in Morocco, specifically a drive across the desert at twilight/night. Seeing as there are no deserts mentioned in LoTR’s, you must now go and :smack: yourself about the head and shoulders 15 times with a wet haddock. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stairway-to-heaven-is-tolkien-related-long/119927.md?page=2)