# Stan Musial, 1920-2013 **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 20, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766 "2013-01-20T01:18:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/21 "2013-01-21T09:26:51Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > The only man ever to make Ken Griffey Jr. second best. If not for Stan, Griffey Jr. would be the best baseball player ever to be born in Donora PA. Named the bridge after him too! My Stan story is that my Grandfather supposedly played with him way, way, way back in the day - there’s a roll sheet or something my Grandmother still has. They lived right up the river from Donora. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/22 "2013-01-21T17:43:43Z")
> [@denquixote](#): > > The only man ever to make Ken Griffey Jr. second best. If not for Stan, Griffey Jr. would be the best baseball player ever to be born in Donora PA. And they share a birthday. Both were born on a November 21. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/23 "2013-01-21T17:52:21Z")
Junior was born in Cincinnati while Senior (who WAS born in Donora) played for the Reds. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/24 "2013-01-21T20:23:23Z")
A good friend of mine is a St. Louis native, but not much of a sports fan. His Facebook post from this weekend: “Since I don’t follow or really even like baseball, when I met Stan, we talked harmonicas.” I wish I knew more about Musial, but from all I’ve read (over the weekend, and in recent years), it sounds like he was both an outstanding athlete, and an outstanding human being. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/25 "2013-01-21T20:43:38Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Junior was born in Cincinnati while Senior (who WAS born in Donora) played for the Reds. Griffey Jr. was indeed born in Donora, PA. His father did not play for the Reds, or in the major leagues at all, at the time. Griffey Sr. was ALSO born in Donora. Donora has a population of five or six thousand people, so a guy who played 2000 major league games, batted .297, made three All-Star teams and was a regular in one of the greatest lineups to ever take the field was merely the \*third-best \*player to be born in that tiny little mining town. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/26 "2013-01-21T20:49:02Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Junior was born in Cincinnati while Senior (who WAS born in Donora) played for the Reds. Where did you come up with that? ETA: **RickJay** beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/27 "2013-01-21T23:06:03Z")
A huge loss to the baseball world. Stan The Man was nothing but a damn fine ballplayer and a damn fine person. RIP Stan Musial ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2013, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/28 "2013-01-21T23:43:58Z")
Stan Musial was a better ballplayer then Joe DiMaggio. Jesus. Yes. Yankee fan. True. ---
**Author:** ![Yookeroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yookeroo/32/323_2.png) [@Yookeroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yookeroo)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/29 "2013-01-22T23:20:57Z")
But not better than Willie Mays. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2013, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/30 "2013-01-23T00:14:29Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > But not better than Willie Mays. Let’s not start that shit again, please. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/31 "2013-01-25T02:56:55Z")
For someone who started seeing baseball in 1946, Musial was it. Here is an interesting anecdote. When Bill James decided to study the question of who was the most valuable player of the 40s, he began by saying that the answer was a surprise. I said to myself, “You mean it wasn’t Musial!”. But of course it turned out to be. Bill James grew up post-Musial and could not imagine the aura that surrounded him. You really had to be there to appreciate him. Maybe we will look back on Jeter the same way. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/32 "2013-01-25T22:14:22Z")
Musial’s funeral on Saturday will be carried live on [four TV stations, three radio stations, Fox Sports Midwest and streamed on a couple of websites](http://www.stltoday.com/entertainment/television/dan-caesar/caesar-coverage-galore-set-for-musial-funeral/article_e855f85c-94cf-5b33-9c44-2f91258df928.html). ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/33 "2013-01-26T22:01:21Z")
He was my favorite oldtime player. The problem with him was what he was not. 1.He never aspired to be regarded as the greatest hitter. 2.He married his HS sweetheart not Hollywoods greatest sex symbol 3 He never suffered an injury that made you think what might have been. The end of his life is not a cautionary tale… 4.He did not fight against the embodiment of a prejudice he faced at home. 5.He did not make the most famous putout in history. 6.He never held the most revered record in sports. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/34 "2013-01-27T00:41:42Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > He was my favorite oldtime player. The problem with him was what he was not. > > 1.He never aspired to be regarded as the greatest hitter. > 2.He married his HS sweetheart not Hollywoods greatest sex symbol > 3 He never suffered an injury that made you think what might have been. > The end of his life is not a cautionary tale.. > 4.He did not fight against the embodiment of a prejudice he faced at home. > 5.He did not make the most famous putout in history. > 6.He never held the most revered record in sports. Not seeing the “problem.” ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/35 "2013-01-27T04:45:27Z")
Adjusted Expectations (the Fan and the “Man”) The Pole Star stands, unmoving;Vin Scully once said, “Musial was so good, he took your breath away.” (Cooperstown, 1982) Serenely posed in bronze, with smiling face Arrayed mid splendid peers behind a railing Astonishing me in this demi-sacred place A mean attempt to capture legend, failing. O’er twenty years spring, summer, fall like lightning your bat, like a whippet you ran. You never looked back at an umpire’s call; in Brooklyn, they dubbed you, “The Man”. My wife and sons don’t comprehend Why I stand and stare at your puckish visage or wipe away tears I couldn’t defend rememb’ring my dreams at an unfinished age. (Baraboo, August 13, 1963) Our wedding-day past, my two-day bride was all any man could desire; Yet I cried as I lay on the bed by her side, Stan Musial intends to retire. More twice then my age, defining the game a solo surpassing the choir. Could my world again be ever the same? “The Man” said today, he’d retire. We headed straight south onU.S. 34, A Kinsellanian scene, We watched my hero play once more and double off the right-field screen. Inward, I said, ‘it could be worse; There are Others to enkindle me. the Pole Star is gone, but I’ll chart my course with John Fitzgerald Kennedy’. (Blue Island, November 24, 1963) Twenty-one years I turned today. I woke in shock and disbelief, Jack Ruby made Lee Harvey pay Tho’ he gained the People no relief. Beyond the window on this moonless night The glaring bulb above my head Reflects red-rimmed eyes in its harsh, cold, light. Another hero is dead. Do you still see that boy saluting? And hear the muffled drums? I’ll see those flame tips fluting, If my hundredth birthday comes. (Central New York State, March, 1993) Plunging through the night and the blinding snow. At 2 a.m., on radio scan, Out of the ether a voice I know, an interview with… Stan the Man They ramble and talk for an hour. He plays a harmonica tune. His voice retingling the itchy scar, The clouds break, revealing the moon I pop in a tape at 4 a.m. Bob Seger and the Bullet Band ‘Wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then’ ‘Still runnin’ against the wind’ ---
**Author:** ![etv78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@etv78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/etv78)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/36 "2013-01-27T08:14:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Not seeing the “problem.” Most of those players would be mentioned before Musial in GOAT discussions. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2013, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/37 "2013-01-27T22:38:46Z")
> [@etv78](#): > > Most of those players would be mentioned before Musial in GOAT discussions. And he wouldn’t have cared. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/38 "2013-01-28T04:52:57Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > And he wouldn’t have cared. That’s the beauty of it. If you’d said to Stan Musial “Babe Ruth was the best ever” he probably would have said “I think so, too.” Musial was who he was and he wore it with grace and dignity. You can’t ask for more. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/39 "2013-01-28T16:31:30Z")
A couple more tidbits about The Man: > [@Joe Strauss](#): > > Perhaps Musial’s most understated accomplishment remains his triples. He is the only player to amass more than 170 triples since Paul Waner’s retirement in 1944. Musial led the NL in the category three times, twice amassing 20 in a season. Only three National League players have accomplished the feat since Musial’s second such season in 1946. Musial finished 1943 with more triples (20) than strikeouts (18) in 700 plate appearances. > **[Joe Strauss: How good was Musial?](https://www.stltoday.com/sports/professional/mlb/cardinals/joe-strauss-how-good-was-musial/article_b1152ba6-2287-5025-8b15-123f7a3ede0c.html)** > > For those that never got to see him play, Musial's numbers are an easy reminder of the baseball player they missed. Re-read that last line. He stepped up to the plate 700 times and struck out _18 times_. He had 48 doubles to go along with those 20 triples (220 total hits) that year. > [@Joe Posnanski](#): > > To me, the best description of Musial through his stats is to say that 16 times in his career Musial hit 30 or more doubles. It might not make for a great movie. But all his baseball life Stan Musial hit baseballs into gaps and he ran hard out of the box. > **[Musial Redux](http://joeposnanski.blogspot.com/2012/11/musial-redux.html)** > > How would you like to be Ken Griffey Jr. and be the second-best left-handed hitter born on Nov. 21 in Donora, Pa.? In honor of their birth... > [@Joe Posnanski](#): > > Stan Musial does this origami trick with a dollar bill. He folds the bill one way, then back. He folds it again and again, never looking at his hands. He smiles throughout. If he’s in the right mood, Musial might offer a corny joke to keep the time moving. Horse walks into a bar. Or, How do you know that God is a baseball fan? That sort of thing. He will break into his particular brand of baseball chatter: “Whaddya say! Whaddya say! Whaddya say!” After a few seconds Musial holds up the dollar bill and, absurdly, it has transformed into a ring. The audience always oohs with surprise. Musial will look surprised too. How did I do that? Then Stan Musial, with the tenderness of a groom, will slip the dollar bill ring on someone’s finger, wink and walk off to the happy murmur that he has inspired in people for most of his 90 or so years on Planet Earth. > > It’s a good little trick. > > The question is, Why would a man learn such a trick? > > And what does it say about Stan the Man that he’s so good at it? > > “Stan Musial,” his teammate Bob Gibson says, “is the nicest man I ever met in baseball.” Gibson smiles. “And, to be honest, I can’t relate to that. I never knew that nice and baseball went together.” [http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1172566/index.htm](http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1172566/index.htm) And here he is on What’s My Line ([http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsfm56autyk](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lsfm56autyk)). It’s not that interesting as a game show. But he looks so nervous and self-conscious there, like someone who didn’t think he should be on TV. And I love he part where one of the panelists asks him if he was an infielder, and he nervously asks the host for help, probably thinking, “I played first base and all four outfield positions. How do I not screw this up?” I never met him and never saw him play, but I miss him already. “Whaddya say! Whaddya say! Whaddya say!” ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2013, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766/40 "2013-01-28T16:56:50Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > …probably thinking, "I played first base and all four outfield positions… Three. Three! :smack: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-musial-1920-2013/647766.md?page=3)