# Stan Shmenge **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 13, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323 "2009-03-13T13:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/1 "2009-03-13T13:30:06Z")
Hi Stan, This isn’t really a pitting per se (though I can’t control other posters), but since I’m directing this at _you_ rather than your arguments, this is the appropriate forum. First, you’ve been here since ’05, so you should know that when referring to a news story, including a link is not only SOP, it’s common courtesy. From your thread, [Can anyone here morally justify Obama’s proposed tax on charitable contributions?](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510166): > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/1): > > The first three posts in the thread (OP quoted in its entirety): > > > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/1): > > > > Just asking. > > > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/2): > > > > If you can provide a link to what he’s proposing I’ll give it a shot. > > > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/3): > > > > Sigh. What sources of news do you follow that you haven’t heard of it? The exasperation inherent in “sigh” is absurdly misplaced, as is the low-end sneer that it’s such a common news item that a link is unnecessary. Again, providing links and a brief summation in an OP is standard practice, so posters don’t have to go through the task of searching out what your referring to or reading the entire article to engage in conversation. An admittedly trivial task (in most cases), but it’s such a part of Board culture that directing umbrage at being asked for a link comes across quite poorly. Lastly, the insinuation that a poster is ignorant because he wasn’t aware of a news item is, at the very least, in poor taste. This is exacerbated by the relative dearth of coverage of the story. Not that it wasn’t available, but there was just one article on it in the NY Times (from February 26). Your own cite to an obscure periodical (obscure to those not in the non-profit sector), also from late February, only underscores this point. It is far from a common story, so your suggestion that the poster was ill-informed is tantamount to an ad hominem. Moving on, you’ve claimed the mantle of [“a primary critic of the new regime.”](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=510171) That’s great. We _need_ conservatives on the board. The very existence of GD relies on opposing viewpoints, whether from ornery Canadians who have a passion for American Politics (hi [Sam!](http://boardstest.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=509663)) or people just playing devil’s advocate. But what we don’t need is low-end drivel. There’re plenty of boards —both right and left—that spout oversimplified and sloganized talking points in the guise of reason. The Dope, though, stands among the few in that by and large, the drool is a relative drop in a bucket of thought out, reasoned responses. Droll humor or snarks aren’t completely missing (e.g., Obamunist/Shrub), but through it all there is a level of articulation that propels debate; not just shouting. But as so-called champion of the right, you’ve provided us with: (Note; some of these are excised quotes with snipping for brevity) > [@As you were, now I am.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-you-were-now-i-am/489317/1): > > I look forward to following the exploits of the Obamunist with you all. The man is a disaster. An empty suit with an ideology that will harm the world. Don’t say I didn’t tell you so. > [@As you were, now I am.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/as-you-were-now-i-am/489317/5): > > Except that the companies targeted are heavily unionized. This is more a payoff to the unions than the folks on Wall Street. > [@](#): > > He has leftist credentials, which I feel are as bad for the world now as they were when Carter threw the Shah under the rug for an Islamacist regime back in the late 70’s > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/7): > > Of course that would never fly with the unions that represent the public employee union drones that suck up nine out of every ten dollars funneled through the public teat before it ever gets to a needy person. Of course those members can be unified to vote Democratic, whereas the folks on the dole may or may not show up to vote, or even understand where their bread is buttered. > [@Can anyone here morally justify Obama's proposed tax on charitable contributions?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/can-anyone-here-morally-justify-obamas-proposed-tax-on-charitable-contributions/489312/8): > > Yes, so even if it is only an incremental change, the effect is to channel dollars from efficient private charities, largely manned by volunteers, to public employee union members, who consume the majority of the money, and who’s vote can be counted on by a certain political party. 😉 > [@Obama and Bush: What makes "competence" in a President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-bush-what-makes-competence-in-a-president/489105/23): > > I have no doubt that Obama is going to be a one-termer in the mold of Mr. Mush, Jimmy Carter. He will likely be followed by a Reaganesque figure, who will win in a landslide, once the populace sees what the results are of a man who hasn’t the brains to understand the most basic workings of the economy (profit to earnings ratio? :p) and hasn’t the balls to conduct a proper foreign policy. > > I knew we were done when he made the Arafat worshiper, Clinton, Secretary of State. Now she wants to hand millions to Hamas, even as they launch more missiles? Puh-leez. > [@Obama and Bush: What makes "competence" in a President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-bush-what-makes-competence-in-a-president/489105/25): > > I am sad to say that Obama is not surprising me in the least. He could have vetoed the budget, for instance, but instead, let the earmarks roll! Business as usual. Bush’s spending was bad, but you ain’t seen nothing yet. With a monopoly of power in all branches, the drunken sailors will be doing crack to stay awake overtime writing checks. Obama stated that he was going to eliminate “programs that don’t work”, just not THIS year. I am sure we will see more of the same next year as well. Show me a program he is going to cut? That would be evidence I could believe in. > > And if you don’t know of Hillary’s longtime sympathy for the bomb throwers, I guess I can’t educate you. Little surprise that the people of Israel voted in a conservative government that will act to protect their national interest, because we sure won’t. > [@Obama and Bush: What makes "competence" in a President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-bush-what-makes-competence-in-a-president/489105/29): > > Well, if Obama doesn’t screw the pooch, a lasting democracy in Iraq would do a lot to stabilize the region and reduce terrorism in the long run. But we can’t have that, can we? Then future historians might look upon Bush as a visionary. No, we will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, just like Viet-Nam, and the ensuing bloodbath will never be blamed on those responsible, the left in the United States. > [@Obama and Bush: What makes "competence" in a President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-bush-what-makes-competence-in-a-president/489105/30): > > Obama wants to cement the Democrat majority, by making us all serfs to the public employee unions. > [@Obama and Bush: What makes "competence" in a President?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/obama-and-bush-what-makes-competence-in-a-president/489105/32): > > We have an administration that is steeped in the Marxist left, and will carry out it’s objectives to the horror of the world. No price is too much to pay, to further the cause of collectivism that Obama represents. I have plenty to complain regarding the previous administration, but what is to come is more horrible than anything imagined by Bush & Co. Talk to me in three years, and see who’s legacy is what. The thing is, scattered about the above atrocities are smatterings of thought. No, not in what I quoted (I want to be clear to anyone reading this that I just quoted the insipid bits) but sprinkled about them like confectioners’ sugar on a very large steaming pile of shit. For the past few days, your ridiculous-to-reasoned ratio is horribly askew. As I said, we need conservative voices here, both to temper the echo and to give those of us who read the Boards for the near-academic quality of discourse a variety of viewpoints to ponder. Given the relative paucity of actively posting conservatives, stepping up to be one of the “primary critics of the new regime” is within your grasp, but you’ll have to let go of some of the hyperbole. I’m aware that Pit threads oft turn on the OP, so if anyone out there thinks I’m in error, have at it. Not that you needed me to tell you that 🙂 Rhythm ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/2 "2009-03-13T13:38:28Z")
I stand behind every statement that I have made. Listing a bunch of them without rebuttal does not make an argument. ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/3 "2009-03-13T13:48:38Z")
So, is there a particular reason you’ve felt compelled to make quite so many of them freestanding GD threads? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/4 "2009-03-13T13:51:33Z")
> [@](#): > > …Obama wants to cement the Democrat majority, by making us all serfs to the public employee unions… Drivel such as this does not merit rebuttal, it barely merits abuse. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/5 "2009-03-13T13:54:50Z")
I did learn from his posts that Iraq was a success. It was news to me. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/6 "2009-03-13T13:59:33Z")
I especially like his complete misunderstanding of the US relationship with Persia/Iran in the last 70 or 80 years. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/7 "2009-03-13T14:02:24Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > I stand behind every statement that I have made. Listing a bunch of them without rebuttal does not make an argument. There’s no rebuttal because I’m not trying to argue with you or dissuade of any opinion other than most of what you’ve posted was sophomoric twaddle. Not necessarily the ideas behind the posts or your disagreement with the administration’s policies, but your crude overgeneralizations and artless panderings. There’s plenty of room for critique and analysis of, say, Obama’s change to the charitable giving deduction. All I’m saying is that if you moved your reasons for a %100 deduction to the fore and let some of the empty rhetoric fade you’d add substantial value to the board. Erudite left-wingers around here are a dime a dozen, but even moderately articulate conservatives stand out. ETA: It just occurred to me that perhaps you can’t or don’t see a difference between your posts and those of, say, **Shodan** , **Bricker** , or **Sam Stone** to name the first three that came to mind (with apologies to those three if I shouldn’t have grouped or labeled them as such). _Can_ you tell the difference? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/8 "2009-03-13T14:08:18Z")
The guy is either Performance art parody; A sock puppet; A troll. Whichever it is he’s too deranged to bother debating with. Along with other rabid conservatives the current state of the world they have wrought removes any right they have to express an opinion and any obligation people who haven’t been driven batshit crazy by their lunatic ideology have to take them seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/9 "2009-03-13T14:11:42Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > I especially like his complete misunderstanding of the US relationship with Persia/Iran in the last 70 or 80 years. Let’s see if I have it right. We brought our expertise and labor, and took a stone age culture of poverty into the modern age, and had the fruits of our labor and largess stolen from us and used against us ? Is that pretty much it? Or were the indigenous people going to dig the oil out of the sand with their bare hands? Just asking. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/10 "2009-03-13T14:13:05Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > The guy is either > > Performance art parody; > A sock puppet; > A troll. > > Whichever it is he’s too deranged to bother debating with. Along with other rabid conservatives the current state of the world they have wrought removes any right they have to express an opinion and any obligation people who haven’t been driven batshit crazy by their lunatic ideology have to take them seriously. The open minded liberal speaks! ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/11 "2009-03-13T14:16:31Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Let’s see if I have it right. We brought our expertise and labor, and took a stone age culture of poverty into the modern age, and had the fruits of our labor and largess stolen from us and used against us ? Is that pretty much it? Or were the indigenous people going to dig the oil out of the sand with their bare hands? Just asking. Nothing that we are asked to do for a sovereign nation industrially justifies our interfering in their internal government. Mossadegh was democratically elected. We basically told the people of Persia, “You aren’t sovereign. Here’s your old king back. Enjoy.” When the Shah fled Iran in the late 70s, Carter took him into the US and provided medical care, refusing to extradite him to the Islamic revolutionaries and Khomeini. What part of that is Carter “throwing the Shah under the bus”? We reaped what we sowed in Iran. If any other country did that to us, overthrowing a democratically elected president and setting up a king, the entire USA would be practicing guerilla warfare to oust that king and the occupiers. But when the reverse happens, we’re in the right and the native population is dead wrong. American exceptionalism stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/12 "2009-03-13T14:28:22Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Nothing that we are asked to do for a sovereign nation industrially justifies our interfering in their internal government. Mossadegh was democratically elected. We basically told the people of Persia, “You aren’t sovereign. Here’s your old king back. Enjoy.” When the Shah fled Iran in the late 70s, Carter took him into the US and provided medical care, refusing to extradite him to the Islamic revolutionaries and Khomeini. What part of that is Carter “throwing the Shah under the bus”? > > We reaped what we sowed in Iran. If any other country did that to us, overthrowing a democratically elected president and setting up a king, the entire USA would be practicing guerilla warfare to oust that king and the occupiers. But when the reverse happens, we’re in the right and the native population is dead wrong. American exceptionalism stinks. Except that the United States was not a pre technological civilization with no chance of advancement. We did not need to invite foreigners into the country to help us develop beyond the stone age, and if we had, we probably would not have turned against them at the first opportunity. You are setting up a situation that would never have happened in the first place, so it is a straw man. The rights to those resources were legitimately shared, and the actions of Mossadegh was a betrayal of the deal under which we developed the resource, I.E. theft, nothing different than the types of nationalization that we see nowadays in Venezuela or Zimbabwe. But as a leftist, I am sure you see nothing wrong with that. Power to the people! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/13 "2009-03-13T14:35:28Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > The open minded liberal speaks! Ah, the tardcore refrain that liberals must tolerate everything, including dumbass message board dipshits. How hypocritical of us. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/14 "2009-03-13T14:36:27Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Let’s see if I have it right. We brought our expertise and labor, and took a stone age culture of poverty into the modern age, and had the fruits of our labor and largess stolen from us and used against us ? Is that pretty much it? Or were the indigenous people going to dig the oil out of the sand with their bare hands? Just asking. Ungrateful bastards, they should thank us for hauling that oil away. It’s icky, icky stuff. > [@jayjay](#): > > When the Shah fled Iran in the late 70s, Carter took him into the US and provided medical care, refusing to extradite him to the Islamic revolutionaries and Khomeini. What part of that is Carter “throwing the Shah under the bus”? To be fair, the Shah wanted medical care, but I don’t know that he got it. And according to Wikipedia (citing the Shah’s own memoir) he was asked to leave the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/15 "2009-03-13T14:43:36Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Ah, the tardcore refrain that liberals must tolerate everything, including dumbass message board dipshits. How hypocritical of us. How about responding to a point I have made! The poster was doing what you are doing, making a cheap ad-hominem rather than engaging in debate. How perfectly characteristic, when the ideas run out… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Svinlesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/22d042/32.png) [@Mr.Svinlesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Svinlesha)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/16 "2009-03-13T14:46:33Z")
Well, the mere idea that the Obama administration is _“steeped in the Marxist left”_ is laughable. I don’t think you know what the Marxist left is. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/17 "2009-03-13T14:47:51Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > …How perfectly characteristic, when the ideas run out… …mark the spot with ellipsises. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/18 "2009-03-13T14:47:58Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > It just occurred to me that perhaps you can’t or don’t see a difference between your posts and those of, say, **Shodan** , **Bricker** , or **Sam Stone** to name the first three that came to mind (with apologies to those three if I shouldn’t have grouped or labeled them as such). _Can_ you tell the difference? Whoa there… **Shodan**? From what I’ve seen, he and **Stan [del]Smith[/del] Shmenge** are like peas in a pod, and comparable to **Bricker** and **Sam Stone** only when the latter two are drunk. ---
**Author:** ![Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@Petrobey\_Mavromihalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Petrobey_Mavromihalis)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/19 "2009-03-13T14:48:20Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Except that the United States was not a pre technological civilization with no chance of advancement. Ummm, yes you were. You really are an enormous fucking loon. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323/20 "2009-03-13T14:48:56Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > The open minded liberal speaks! > [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > But as a leftist, I am sure you see nothing wrong with that. Power to the people! Damn those rotten ad hominemers. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stan-shmenge/489323.md?page=2)