# Stand Up Comics and Cancel Culture **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 4, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271 "2020-08-04T19:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/21 "2020-08-05T19:58:32Z")
> [@Yookeroo](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > And now when we point that out, you say we’re stipulating the obvious. Well, you made it necessary because of what you said. > > It was pretty obvious to me. His first sentence is: > > > [@QuickSilver](#): > > > > “Gay French King” is not funny to a college kid. > > So clearly he thinks the context of the joke is important, not the actual word itself. That’s how I read it. I don’t know about you, but if I mean to say “the context of the joke is important, not the actual word itself,” then I wouldn’t say “’[G]ay’ is still funny. So are ‘jewish’, ‘black’, ‘irish’, ‘trans’, ‘rape’ and a bunch of other human conditions," which implies that context is not important. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/22 "2020-08-05T20:01:03Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I don’t know about you, but if I mean to say “the context of the joke is important, not the actual word itself,” then I wouldn’t say “’[G]ay’ is still funny. So are ‘jewish’, ‘black’, ‘irish’, ‘trans’, ‘rape’ and a bunch of other human conditions," which implies that context is not important. Then you have missed the context in which I made that statement and so perhaps this thread is not for you\*. \*Odds are good you won’t get the above reference. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/23 "2020-08-05T20:01:46Z")
> [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](#): > > It seems to me, a certain amount of stand up comics are pushing back against the whole political correctness thing. FWIW, when I heard Dave Chappelle’s bit about it, he was specifically talking about the people who will dig through someone’s past in hopes of finding that they said something untoward. Then they “expose” it and insist that the target grovel and apologize to their satisfaction. Like the dude who was drafted by an NFL team, and someone made a huge stink that he tweeted something with (I think) a slur in it when he was like 14 or 15. As if they expect someone should be rendered unemployable because he said something stupid as a teenager. that goes way beyond telling someone they shouldn’t joke about certain things. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/24 "2020-08-05T20:06:39Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@Acsenray](#): > > > > I don’t know about you, but if I mean to say “the context of the joke is important, not the actual word itself,” then I wouldn’t say “’[G]ay’ is still funny. So are ‘jewish’, ‘black’, ‘irish’, ‘trans’, ‘rape’ and a bunch of other human conditions," which implies that context is not important. > > Then you have missed the context in which I made that statement and so perhaps this thread is not for you\*. > > \*Odds are good you won’t get the above reference. The context of this thread is things you say in this thread. If you require some supporting external context, then I would expect you to mention it. I’m sorry if I haven’t memorized every line of dialogue you’re familiar with. There’s a lot to keep up with. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/25 "2020-08-05T20:11:34Z")
I’ve already said and explained more than I should have had to. I can’t understand things for you. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/26 "2020-08-05T21:23:11Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Of course it’s not funny to use those terms to slur or insult someone. Why do people insist on wanting to stipulate the obvious? That’s how pretty much everyone but you is interpteting your claim that being gay, trans, black, or getting raped are ‘inherently funny’ - if they’re inherently funny, then you just bring it up and laugh at it. Which, for these items, only happens if you are using them to insult a group to people who like to insult that group. > [@](#): > > As has already been mentioned up thread, Ricky Jervais has mentioned all those things _and_ Hitler, and has managed to get away with it. A comedian mentioning ‘those things’ doesn’t mean that those things are inherently funny, comedians mention pretty much every noun, verb, and adjective at some point. I mean, since your example comedian also mentioned him, are you seriously arguing that Hitler is ‘inherently funny’ now? And I really have no idea what a comedian ‘getting away with it’ has to do with the terms being ‘inherently funny’ or not being used as slurs. As I’ve pointed out, comedians get away with a whole lot of slurs and insults and don’t lose their careers, that doesn’t make slurs and/or insults stop being what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/27 "2020-08-05T21:39:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But I can see how that may not be something everyone finds amusing. Even I don’t find it laugh out loud funny. It’s far from it. It’s just a good visual exaggeration of a mundane action absently performed by everyone standing on a train platform. No, it’s a dated use of the word ‘gay’ that is going to throw off a lot of modern audiences and make the joke fall flat while they figure out what king who’s attracted to other men is being talked about, or what it has to do with people on their phones. French Kings are also not usually at the forefront of the public consciousness, and the connection between being dressed ‘gay’ and using a cell phone is… tenuous at best. He’s relying on stereotypes about gay people being ‘poncy’ that are decades out of date to make the joke, and on the old stereotype that just bringing up ‘gay’ is funny. It’s an old guy making a joke aimed at other old guys and not realizing that language, understanding, and cultural touchpoints have moved on for people that are not him. Like others have said, whining that people are ‘too sensitive’ because you constructed a joke that your audience doesn’t find funny is attempting to deflect the blame for your failure as a comedian. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Q](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/898d66/32.png) [@Johnny\_Q](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Q)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/28 "2020-08-05T22:11:48Z")
Lenny Bruce actually had a bit on this… [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Bo750ByNnc8/hqdefault.jpg "Lenny Bruce - The Palladium (live)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bo750ByNnc8) ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/29 "2020-08-05T23:24:07Z")
> [@Pantastic](#): > > A comedian mentioning ‘those things’ doesn’t mean that those things are inherently funny, comedians mention pretty much every noun, verb, and adjective at some point. I mean, since your example comedian also mentioned him, are you seriously arguing that Hitler is ‘inherently funny’ now? And I really have no idea what a comedian ‘getting away with it’ has to do with the terms being ‘inherently funny’ or not being used as slurs. As I’ve pointed out, comedians get away with a whole lot of slurs and insults and don’t lose their careers, that doesn’t make slurs and/or insults stop being what they are. I can tell you are genuinely serious about all of the above. And that may well be the funniest thing I read or hear today. 😆 ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Cheeseburger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/30 "2020-08-06T00:57:42Z")
I was thinking more of the lines of Sarah Silverman. Alot of her humor came from a persona of a Jewish America Princess liberal (itself of a trope) saying very political uncorrect things. The joke wasn’t the racist comment, the joke was that she a liberal white girl was saying it. People often didn’t get it. White guys would tell her how funny that racist joke was, even if it was actual racist white guys was who she was making fun of. Non white guys would be mad cuz she said the racist thing, no getting the real joke either. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/31 "2020-08-06T01:10:04Z")
That was a pretty meta post. Maybe you could link to the joke or an article describing it? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/32 "2020-08-06T10:15:18Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Maybe you could link to the joke or an article describing it? While we’re at that, I’d like some links to these hilarious rape jokes people in this thread are assuring me exist. I’d also like a pony… CMC ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/33 "2020-08-06T14:58:54Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > While we’re at that, > I’d like some links to these hilarious rape jokes people in this thread are assuring me exist. > I’d also like a pony… Here you go: [Anthony Jeselnik](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoQaPvNwk80) ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Cheeseburger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/34 "2020-08-06T19:21:27Z")
> **[Sarah Silverman: Funny woman or foul-mouthed racist?](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/sarah-silverman-funny-woman-or-foulmouthed-racist-963958.html)** > > When Sarah Silverman performs her first British stand-up show tonight, no taboo will go unbroken. But is she merely a pretty girl with a filthy mouth, or is there more to her comedy than equal-opportunities offensiveness? She’s changed her tune a little bit more recently, but definitely not a 180 turn. > **[Sarah Silverman: Ferguson changed my attitude to race jokes](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/sep/16/sarah-silverman-ferguson-changed-my-attitude-to-race-jokes)** > > The comedian spoke about the change in what people find funny – and about women’s new dominance in comedy – during a live interview at the Toronto film festival ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/35 "2020-08-06T19:30:09Z")
Thanks! This a great example of a comedian seeing the changing tides and changing her jokes because of it, rather than just complaining about the changes. Very helpful. I agree that Seinfeld is in the wrong here and there’s it’s not really cancel culture that’s his problem, but rather changing tastes in the audience. For example, I’m sure he’d agree that he shouldn’t put in false buck teeth and squint his eyes for a ridiculous Asian impression, while putting on a stupid accent, Krusty-the-Clown-like. Some things become tasteless, offensive, and just not funny as time goes by. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/36 "2020-08-06T19:53:19Z")
> [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](#): > > I was thinking more of the lines of Sarah Silverman. Alot of her humor came from a persona of a Jewish America Princess liberal (itself of a trope) saying very political uncorrect things. The joke wasn’t the racist comment, the joke was that she a liberal white girl was saying it. > > People often didn’t get it. White guys would tell her how funny that racist joke was, even if it was actual racist white guys was who she was making fun of. Non white guys would be mad cuz she said the racist thing, no getting the real joke either. Yeah, when your shtick is “I look liberal, but I’m telling a racist joke, isn’t that FUNNY” it’s not surprising that the weak attempt at irony fails and racists like your racist jokes while people your racist jokes are directed against notice the racist jokes and don’t go for the “but I’m not racist, so it’s ironic if I tell racist jokes!” explanation. Accusing people of not ‘getting it’ for pointing out that you’re just telling racist jokes is deflecting from the fact that your schitck is… telling racist jokes. The ‘Oh, it’s ironic for someone like MEEE to say them’ bit just doesn’t fly. Note that the Simpsons episode where Krusty does an offensive “Ching Chong Chinaman” stereotype doesn’t fall into that trap, because the episode quickly calls out that what Krusty is doing is offensive and uses it to show how out of touch he is. If the Simpsons just had Krusty do the Ching Chong stuff every episode for the ‘irony’ of a liberal show making the joke, then it would probably get the same reception Silverman did. ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Cheeseburger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/37 "2020-08-06T19:58:02Z")
Or it could be a subtle commentary on the hypocrisy of white America. Not every joke beats people over the head with a punchline. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/38 "2020-08-06T20:14:56Z")
Or it could be a failed attempt to deflect criticism of a comic who tells a lot of racist jokes by claiming that critics of her telling racist jokes are just too dumb to get the subtlety of her humor. I mean, even she says that the whole idea of telling racist jokes to expose racism through the irony of her saying it (or whatever exact wording you want to use to defend it) is complete bullshit. When the person you’re defending says that they only felt comfortable with their schtick because they were grossly ignorant, and that what they did was the equivalent of the old man who still calls black people ‘colored people’, maybe it’s time to stop arguing that the people criticising her are just toooo stoooopid to get her cleverness. “Just cos I am liberal and I say I’m making a character study of an ignorant person – the intention was good, but whatever. Now I know more about this phrase ‘the liberal bubble’, I know that saying ‘I’m not racist, so I can be racist to show racism’… well social media taught me that racism doesn’t need me to help people understand racism, because it’s everywhere.” "I had really racial stuff that, in my mind, at that time, was illuminating racism and starting a conversation. Now I see it very differently, like: ‘Oh, right. Unarmed black teenagers are getting killed by cops daily. This joke is less funny to me.’ Or I used to say [adopts masculine Boston accent]: ‘That’s so gay.’ And then I would defend it by going: ‘What? I have gay friends! It’s totally different. I just mean ‘lame’. And as I was arguing it, I realised: ‘Oh. I’m the old man who says ‘coloured’ … ‘I have coloured friends!’” “Comedy is not evergreen! There are jokes I made 15 years ago that I would absolutely not make today, because I am less ignorant than I was. I know more now than I did. I change with new information.” (quotes are from the articles below:) > **[Sarah Silverman: ‘I cringe at material I did 10 years ago'](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/dec/01/sarah-silverman-ralph-wrecks-internet-love-you-america)** > > The comic’s career is littered with controversies. So what would she delete from her history? As she stars in Ralph Breaks the Internet, Silverman discusses 4chan, Trump and bad gags > **[Sarah Silverman: ‘Jokes I made 15 years ago I'd not make today’](https://www.theguardian.com/global/2017/nov/19/sarah-silverman-interview-jokes-i-made-15-years-ago-i-wouldnt-make-today)** > > Sarah Silverman’s comedy has always aimed a laser into the dark corners of sexism and racism. Now she’s using her wit to make sense of the issues facing America. Sophie Heawood meets her in Hollywood ---
**Author:** ![Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ebca7d/32.png) [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bacon_Cheeseburger)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/39 "2020-08-06T20:28:50Z")
From above article. "I ask, if you carry on down this path of moral and political righteousness, is there a risk that you won’t be funny? Do all comedians fear they might lose their edge if they become too nice? “100%,” she admits. " You don’t think the entire “cancel culture” thing had a teensy weensy bit to do with her change of heart. You might say yes and that’s great. we must call out these racist/sexist/homophobes and shame them publicly until they succumb to our demands. I always found her funny. including today. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271/40 "2020-08-06T20:36:12Z")
> [@Bacon\_Cheeseburger](#): > > You might say yes and that’s great. we must call out these racist/sexist/homophobes and shame them publicly until they succumb to our demands I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. Are you saying we shouldn’t stop giving racists, sexists, and homophobes a platform, or we should stop? Should racists, sexists, and homophobes be encouraged to do better or not? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-up-comics-and-cancel-culture/917271.md?page=3)