# Stand Yer Ground: a drunk, scared teen looking for help might knock on your door **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956 "2013-11-15T02:14:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/1 "2013-11-15T02:14:25Z")
[Homeowner shoots 19yo woman in the face with a shotgun](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57612439-504083/renisha-mcbride-update-teen-had-.218-blood-alcohol-content-when-she-was-shot-to-death-by-mich-homeowner/) after she had a drunk driving accident and was apparently looking for help. He said he thought she was trying to break in and the gun went off accidentally. I guess being behind a locked door with a shotgun and a phone isn’t safe enough. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/2 "2013-11-15T02:39:53Z")
From the NYT [article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/us/fatal-shooting-of-black-woman-outside-detroit-stirs-racial-tensions.html?pagewanted=2): > [@The shooter's lawyer](#): > > I’m confident when the evidence comes it will show that my client was justified and acted as a reasonable person would who was in fear for his life. Armed adult white man fears for his life because of an unarmed black teenage girl? I give this 10 :dubious: out of 10. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/3 "2013-11-15T14:51:47Z")
He should have phoned the police if he was worried. Like in [this case](http://www.msnbc.com/melissa-harris-perry/former-football-player-killed-police-after): > [@](#): > > The woman at the home believed Ferrell was knocking on her door to rob her and called 911. According to police, Ferrell acted aggressively when officers arrived, leading one police officer to fire his taser at Ferrell before Kerrick started shooting. Ferrell was unarmed. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/4 "2013-11-15T15:00:32Z")
> [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](#): > > From the NYT [article](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/15/us/fatal-shooting-of-black-woman-outside-detroit-stirs-racial-tensions.html?pagewanted=2): Armed adult white man fears for his life because of an unarmed black teenage girl? I give this 10 :dubious: out of 10. Are you not being sexist here? A woman can carry a gun as easily as a man. And how is the homeowner to tell that she isn’t carrying from behind a door? Anyway, isn’t this settled law? ISTR a man being killed in similar circumstances some years ago. But she’s black so I hope this will not be Trayvon Martin all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/5 "2013-11-15T15:14:55Z")
It’s open season, folks. By the way, the dead woman was tested for drugs and alcohol and I’m pretty sure the guy who shot her to death was not. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/6 "2013-11-15T15:24:22Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > He said he thought she was trying to break in and the gun went off accidentally. That’s two excuses in one. The first unpacks as “it was a justified/intentional shooting,” and the second as “it was an unintentional shooting.” So which is it? ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/7 "2013-11-15T15:37:25Z")
If only she’d been heavily armed, she could have fought back :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/8 "2013-11-15T15:46:34Z")
I believe both incidents were accidents and both parties are responsible for their own parts in the tragic results. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/9 "2013-11-15T16:03:47Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you not being sexist here? A woman can carry a gun as easily as a man. And how is the homeowner to tell that she isn’t carrying from behind a door? > > Anyway, isn’t this settled law? ISTR a man being killed in similar circumstances some years ago. > > But she’s black so I hope this will not be Trayvon Martin all over again. I really don’t care if it’s law or not, it’s morally disgusting. If someone comes pounding on your door asking for help, you should call the police to get them help, not freaking shoot them. If you’re scared they might be carrying, or might being trying to get in so they can rob you, then don’t open the door, simple as that! If they break in anyway, THEN you might be justified in using force. And it already IS Trayvon Martin all over again, as is every other instance of innocent Black people being killed by racist White people. Most times it just doesn’t get the attention Trayvon did. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/10 "2013-11-15T16:04:54Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I believe both incidents were accidents and both parties are responsible for their own parts in the tragic results. Wow, that is some impressive victim-blaming right there. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/11 "2013-11-15T16:12:02Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That’s two excuses in one. The first unpacks as “it was a justified/intentional shooting,” and the second as “it was an unintentional shooting.” > > So which is it? Pretty sure it was supposed to be both, something like, ‘I thought she was an intruder so I went to the door with a gun, but it went off accidentally.’ And **QuickSilver** , what was her fault in this? Being in trouble and picking a white guy’s house to seek help at? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/12 "2013-11-15T16:19:27Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > And it already IS Trayvon Martin all over again, as is every other instance of innocent Black people being killed by racist White people. Most times it just doesn’t get the attention Trayvon did. Well, this is where this will get muddy. Do we know the race of the homeowner? Do we know that the homeowner knew she was black? What we can expect regardless is plenty of elements of racism in defense of the shooter. They called Trayvon Martin a thug, so I’m guessing they’ll call Renisha McBride a ghetto bitch or a drunk ho or something. Someone will come along to tell us the shooting would’ve been justified because black people are “more likely to be criminals” and I’m sure some intrepid fuckwit will be sure to let us know if she or her family was receiving any kind of welfare, for example. So that’ll be fun. However it won’t be a repeat of the Zimmerman case in one way: the homeowner was just charged with second-degree murder and manslaughter. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/13 "2013-11-15T16:28:19Z")
Wayne County prosecutor announces charges: Second-degree murder, manslaughter, possession of firearm during commission of a felony. [Link](http://www.freep.com/livestream/article/20131115/NEWS02/131115002/Kym-Worthy-charge-homeowner-who-shot-Renisha-McBride-2nd-degree-murder). [The Detroit News](http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131115/METRO01/311150064/Homeowner-charged-second-degree-murder-McBride-case?odyssey=tab%7Ctopnews%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE) is IDing the homeowner as Theodore Wafer. This all took place a few miles from my house, so I guess I now know what will be dominating local airwaves for the next several weeks/months. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/14 "2013-11-15T16:29:23Z")
The homeowner was a white male. I knew as soon as I heard about this story that there would be people on this board who would try to spin it so that the shooter’s actions were at least somewhat understandable. She was shot for knocking on a door while black. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/15 "2013-11-15T16:33:47Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > However it won’t be a repeat of the Zimmerman case in one way: the homeowner was just charged with second-degree murder and manslaughter. 😕 Wasn’t Zimmerman (eventually) charged with murder? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/16 "2013-11-15T16:36:49Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > 😕 Wasn’t Zimmerman (eventually) charged with murder? About a month and a half later, yes. The initial protests were over the fact that the state didn’t charge Zimmerman with a crime at all. After national protests, a special prosecutor was appointed and charges were filed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/17 "2013-11-15T16:40:42Z")
> [@The\_Weird\_One](#): > > Wow, that is some impressive victim-blaming right there. I believe I explicitly said that BOTH parties have some responsibility in this. > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > And **QuickSilver** , what was her fault in this? Being in trouble and picking a white guy’s house to seek help at? Her fault in this was driving drunk. Crashing into a parked car. And, according to the article, acting irrationally. The guy who shot her has a lot to answer for as well. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/18 "2013-11-15T16:42:57Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I believe I explicitly said that BOTH parties have some responsibility in this. We heard you. > [@](#): > > Her fault in this was driving drunk. Crashing into a parked car. Those are illegal and she deserved to be prosecuted for them. But Wafer didn’t know about that stuff when he shot her, so it’s really neither here nor there in terms of the shooting. > [@](#): > > And, according to the article, acting irrationally. That’s impossibly vague and not criminal. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Weird\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@The\_Weird\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Weird_One)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/19 "2013-11-15T16:44:12Z")
Also, a responsible gun owner would not handle his gun in such a way that it could accidentally kill someone, i.e. don’t put your finger on the trigger until you’re ready to fire, and don’t point it at someone unless you intend to kill them! That’s gun safety 101. If you don’t know how to correctly hold gun, you shouldn’t be permitted to own one. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/858c86/32.png) [@I\_Made\_French\_Toast\_For\_You](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Made_French_Toast_For_You)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/20 "2013-11-15T16:47:13Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you not being sexist here? A woman can carry a gun as easily as a man. And how is the homeowner to tell that she isn’t carrying from behind a door? Why is it sexist? Women are less likely to commit violent crimes than men, and I assume he thought she was unarmed and not dangerous since he decided to open his locked door and confront her. Of course it’s possible for women to be dangerous and/or carry guns – I just found the imagery of an adult man with a shotgun vs a “life-threatening” 5’4" unarmed teenage girl to be absurd. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956.md?page=2)