# Stand Yer Ground: a drunk, scared teen looking for help might knock on your door **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 15, 2013, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956 "2013-11-15T02:14:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/41 "2013-11-15T19:18:27Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > My only question is wither the gun going off was really accidental. Who here can say that with certainty? Nobody, since he’s decided to go with justified self-defense instead. The irony of it is that it could have been an accident and that he’ll say he did it on purpose as part of a legal strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/42 "2013-11-15T19:22:30Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Tell you what, **Ravenman** - how about if we stick to what we can determine is factual before we start making up hypotheticals? So you can’t think of any reason to shoot someone on the opposite side of a locked door, either, huh? I guess you’ll have your work cut out to make this into a self-defense case. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/43 "2013-11-15T19:25:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > ::: snip ::: > > It seems from the more recent articles that McBride was shot through a locked screen door “from a distance” and there were no signs of forced entry. This is straight from the police? This absolutely rules out a accidental discharge? What was the shooters state of mind? What was his level of gun safety knowledge or training? Not what YOU think it SHOULD be but what it actually was? Lot of stuff to be investigated and assessed before he actually gets hung IMO. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/44 "2013-11-15T19:27:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > So you can’t think of any reason to shoot someone on the opposite side of a locked door, either, huh? > > I guess you’ll have your work cut out to make this into a self-defense case. Don’t worry, they’re on it. I’d be surprised if Fox News hasn’t already started digging into her personal life. ---
**Author:** ![GusNSpot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gusnspot/32/436_2.png) [@GusNSpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GusNSpot)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/45 "2013-11-15T19:32:02Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nobody, since he’s decided to go with justified self-defense instead. The irony of it is that it could have been an accident and that he’ll say he did it on purpose as part of a legal strategy. They are in court already? Someone said this and it was accurately reported in the press & so is locked in concrete? Well then, never mind, I see no need for a trial or a jury, do you? Can you point me to the post where you said that if it was an accident, you did not think he should be charged with anything? That would be true irony. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/46 "2013-11-15T19:35:05Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > You don’t think it possible that being pig-ass drunk affected the circumstances of the shooting? It would if she were the one with the gun. Dude had home turf, sobriety, telephone and a F\*\*\*ING SHOTGUN in his advantage. It’s trigger-happy/gun-fumbling nimrods like him who will eventually force a repeal of amendment #2. His excuses fuel both of the anti-gun fires: incompetence & irresponsibility. Just based on what he’s said I hope for a murder conviction. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/47 "2013-11-15T19:36:31Z")
A few more similar cases: [Georgia man, 69, accused of fatally shooting 22-year-old who drove into wrong driveway](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57566529-504083/georgia-man-69-accused-of-fatally-shooting-22-year-old-who-drove-into-wrong-driveway/) [Margie Rhea Ramey Arrested For Shooting At Car That Backed Up In Driveway](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/margie-rhea-ramey_n_3659079.html) Better start waving a white flag any time you approach someone’s house. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/48 "2013-11-15T19:38:29Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > They are in court already? Someone said this and it was accurately reported in the press & so is locked in concrete? Yes, his lawyer can completely contradict this in court and say it was an accident. That will work out great for him, I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/49 "2013-11-15T19:39:58Z")
If the door was a screen door, it would be useful to know what type. All of the screen doors I’ve ever owned present no barrier to someone getting into the house - they were meant to keep out insects, not people. If he shot through that kind of door, then the fact that it was locked is totally irrelevant. You could bust through one by leaning on it. On the other hand, I have seen wrought iron screen doors made out of much more substantial material. You couldn’t get through one of those doors, though the fact that he was able to shoot and kill someone through this door makes it quite clear how he could feel threatened by someone on the other side of it. Whether he was really justified… well, I’m neither a detective nor a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/50 "2013-11-15T20:15:27Z")
Despite the vehemence of what I was saying earlier, I’m not calling the shooter a wanna-be lynch mob. I’m saying that this is how badly a lot of people have internalized this view that black people are threatening criminals and people are dying as a result. If that weren’t awful enough, people can fire away as a result of that terror and let’s say the legal consequences for doing that seem iffy. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/51 "2013-11-15T20:48:10Z")
> [@GusNSpot](#): > > This is straight from the police? This absolutely rules out a accidental discharge? > > What was the shooters state of mind? What was his level of gun safety knowledge or training? Not what YOU think it SHOULD be but what it actually was? > > Lot of stuff to be investigated and assessed before he actually gets hung IMO. He pointed a loaded gun at her and pulled the trigger. That’s why the gun went off. It is possible that he didn’t know he was pointing the gun at her, and it’s also possible he didn’t realize he was pulling the trigger. But that’s what he did. In my book that ain’t no accident. Or are you one of those people who believe that guns just go off randomly by themselves every so often? Maybe he didn’t intend to kill her when he pointed a loaded gun at her and pulled the trigger. Maybe he was confused and didn’t intend for the gun to go off. But if he didn’t intend for the gun to go off, why did he point the gun at her and pull the trigger? Accidental discharge my ass. If you’re not capable of not pointing loaded guns at people and pulling the trigger, then you shouldn’t own a gun. This is like asserting that a person who was texting on their phone and rams into a school and kills a bunch of nuns did it on accident. Yeah, I get that you didn’t intend to kill a busload of crippled orphans on their way to Disneyland. But your negligence is why it happened. That’s manslaughter, not “an accident”. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/52 "2013-11-15T20:53:23Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > But your negligence is why it happened. That’s manslaughter, not “an accident”. I’m wondering if that’s why his lawyer says it was self-defense and not an accident. If it was self-defense, maybe he can find one juror to believe him and got off with nothing. If it’s an accident, he’s admitting some culpability. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/53 "2013-11-15T21:01:25Z")
In light of new information around the circumstances of the shooting, I retract my previous stance. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/54 "2013-11-15T21:20:32Z")
No, dammit! STAND YOUR GROUND! ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/55 "2013-11-15T21:22:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does that mean you’re going to stop asserting that she was “drunk out of her mind” or acting abnormally? Assuming that the toxicology report results are being reported correctly, yes, she was drunk out of her mind. A .218 bac is pretty damned high. [Link](http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/renisha-mcbrides-blood-alcohol-level-was-nearly-3-times-legal-limit-according-to-toxicology-report). A .21 will cause: > [@](#): > > Stupor > Loss of understanding > Impaired sensations > Possibility of falling unconscious > Severe motor impairment > Loss of consciousness > Memory blackout [Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content) It is also being reported that she also had THC in her system. So, drunk as hell and stoned. I haven’t read a great deal about this incident. Off the bat it certainly does sound like the shooter should be charged. However, as far as I can tell at this point, we don’t know exactly what she was doing at the door. Now it could be that she knocked nicely, stood there waiting for a response and got shot in the face. It also could be that, after the accident, she was less than happy and was acting irrationally due to being bombed out of her fucking mind. I know a guy who got really loaded, probably about the same as this girl. He was so loaded that he went to the wrong house and tried to get in the front door. He then got pissed and started pounding on the door and acting extremely irrational and pissed because he couldn’t get into what he thought was his house. Luckily for the guy, the neighbors knew him and waited it out even though the guy tried to break in through a couple windows. That guy is me. I don’t remember the event but the neighbors told me about it a few days later and I ended up fixing the stuff I broke\*. So, the idea that someone really drunk could act in a way that could be considered threatening isn’t all that hard to imagine. And she was hammered. Slee \*Being sober (9 years and 8 months) rocks. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/56 "2013-11-15T21:26:53Z")
> [@dracoi](#): > > If the door was a screen door, it would be useful to know what type. All of the screen doors I’ve ever owned present no barrier to someone getting into the house - they were meant to keep out insects, not people. If he shot through that kind of door, then the fact that it was locked is totally irrelevant. You could bust through one by leaning on it. > > On the other hand, I have seen wrought iron screen doors made out of much more substantial material. You couldn’t get through one of those doors, though the fact that he was able to shoot and kill someone through this door makes it quite clear how he could feel threatened by someone on the other side of it. > > Whether he was really justified… well, I’m neither a detective nor a jury. What? There was no sign of forced entry so the type of screen door doesn’t matter at all. You don’t think someone could shoot through a stronger screen door? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/57 "2013-11-15T21:28:36Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > It is also being reported that she also had THC in her system. > > So, drunk as hell and stoned. Having THC in your system is not the same as being stoned. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/58 "2013-11-15T21:32:50Z")
> [@sleestak](#): > > Assuming that the toxicology report results are being reported correctly, yes, she was drunk out of her mind. A .218 bac is pretty damned high. [Link](http://www.wxyz.com/dpp/news/region/detroit/renisha-mcbrides-blood-alcohol-level-was-nearly-3-times-legal-limit-according-to-toxicology-report). > > A .21 will cause: > > [Link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content) > > It is also being reported that she also had THC in her system. > > So, drunk as hell and stoned. > > I haven’t read a great deal about this incident. Off the bat it certainly does sound like the shooter should be charged. However, as far as I can tell at this point, we don’t know exactly what she was doing at the door. > > Now it could be that she knocked nicely, stood there waiting for a response and got shot in the face. > > It also could be that, after the accident, she was less than happy and was acting irrationally due to being bombed out of her fucking mind. > > I know a guy who got really loaded, probably about the same as this girl. He was so loaded that he went to the wrong house and tried to get in the front door. He then got pissed and started pounding on the door and acting extremely irrational and pissed because he couldn’t get into what he thought was his house. Luckily for the guy, the neighbors knew him and waited it out even though the guy tried to break in through a couple windows. > > That guy is me. I don’t remember the event but the neighbors told me about it a few days later and I ended up fixing the stuff I broke\*. > > So, the idea that someone really drunk could act in a way that could be considered threatening isn’t all that hard to imagine. And she was hammered. > > Slee > > \*Being sober (9 years and 8 months) rocks. So somehow this matters for her, but apparently not him. For all we know he could have plowed through a 12-pack before heading to bed that night. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/59 "2013-11-15T21:33:57Z")
> [@The Great Sun Jester](#): > > No, dammit! STAND YOUR GROUND! 🙂 Meh… only thing I dislike more than drunken teens doing stupid shit are guns. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956/60 "2013-11-15T21:41:46Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > A few more similar cases: > > [Georgia man, 69, accused of fatally shooting 22-year-old who drove into wrong driveway](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57566529-504083/georgia-man-69-accused-of-fatally-shooting-22-year-old-who-drove-into-wrong-driveway/) > > [Margie Rhea Ramey Arrested For Shooting At Car That Backed Up In Driveway](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/26/margie-rhea-ramey_n_3659079.html) > > Better start waving a white flag any time you approach someone’s house. And also things like the [76 year old man shoots 13 year old neighbor who he assumes is a thief.](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/trial-milwaukee-mom-recounts-shooting-son-13-article-1.1400993) What’s interesting about this case is after the child was shot, the _mother_ was detained and interrogated by police, while the murderer was free to come and go from his house, potentially tampering with evidence. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stand-yer-ground-a-drunk-scared-teen-looking-for-help-might-knock-on-your-door/673956.md?page=4)