# Stanley cup winner snubs President for political reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460 "2012-01-24T02:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/1 "2012-01-24T02:14:26Z")
Is this sort of thing common? I don’t recall any sports athletes doing this to Bush but I could be mistaken. [http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html](http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html) In any event I saw this and at first I was a bit offended then I realized that I wouldn’t have been offended if this was Bush and to some people, Obama is as bad a President as Bush was to me (I don’t think this is reasonable but if political speech is limited to reasonable speech, politicians would have almost nothing to say). So is it appropriate for a sports athlete to express themselves this way or is this guy being a bit self centered by making a statement with a team victory? ETA: please move this to elections if that is where we put all the domestic political stuff now. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/2 "2012-01-24T02:29:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is this sort of thing common? I don’t recall any sports athletes doing this to Bush but I could be mistaken. > > [http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html](http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html) > > In any event I saw this and at first I was a bit offended then I realized that I wouldn’t have been offended if this was Bush and to some people, Obama is as bad a President as Bush was to me (I don’t think this is reasonable but if political speech is limited to reasonable speech, politicians would have almost nothing to say). > > So is it appropriate for a sports athlete to express themselves this way or is this guy being a bit self centered by making a statement with a team victory? He’s not telling his teammates to stay home and not go to White House. He didn’t go to the White House himself. Why would that not be appropriate? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/3 "2012-01-24T02:37:33Z")
Personally, I think it’s stupid. It’s “the president” who invited the team, not Obama. Respect for the office should transcend politics in these types of cases. It would take something truly egregious, IMO, to justify this. I’m open to hearing what the guy’s gripes are, but I can’t see any of Obama’s policies as being out of mainstream American political thought. > [@OP](#): > > ETA: please move this to elections if that is where we put all the domestic political stuff now. No we don’t. Only stuff related to the election goes there. ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/4 "2012-01-24T02:44:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > So is it appropriate for a sports athlete to express themselves this way or is this guy being a bit self centered by making a statement with a team victory? I’m not sure I remember correctly but there a few, maybe less than 5, show business types, singers or actors, or something similar, that refused a GWB invitation or did not go to a scheduled event at the WH that they were expected to attend as part of a group, team, etc. The objection to GWB was always about the blood thirsty war mongers that had the run of the place and GWB lied to intentionally drag the country to a war for no reason. The objection to Obama has mostly to do with objection to his race. Politically he’s even more to the center-right than Clinton was, but given the intent of groups like the Tea Party, the pandering of the top Repub presidential candidates to racists by blaming blacks for food stamps, and the fact that hockey is mostly popular in the lower-middle class whites, the reason for an objection to visit the Obama White House by a public figure is all too obvious. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/5 "2012-01-24T02:47:58Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s “the president” who invited the team, not Obama. Respect for the office should transcend politics in these types of cases. This. I don’t like the politics of one of my senators, but I feel bad that My Senator had a stroke. I got pissed during the Dubya years as furriners jumped on the bandwagon of making fun of him. Sure, he was a doofus, but he was OUR doofus. They had doofusses of their own to make fun of. ETA: And I would shake his hand. Otherwise is tacky. But hockey players don’t know from tacky. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/6 "2012-01-24T02:51:19Z")
He’s an athlete and so has no real obligation to be politically neutral whatsoever, anymore than the billionaire business owners that own the team he works for–if those guys can donate money to political campaigns and be politically active I don’t see why the players can’t. This isn’t a politician, who you would expect to respect decorum and ceremony, but a private citizen making a political statement against the man who holds the Presidency. There is absolutely nothing un-American about disrespecting the President. In fact, I wish we were more like the British in their relationship with their Prime Minister in regards to our President, instead we’re closer to how the British treat their Queen in regards to how much respect/personal obsequiousness is expected of citizens towards the man who holds the Oval Office. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/7 "2012-01-24T02:58:49Z")
Personally? I think Thomas had ever right to do so, however I think he should have gone for the sake of his teammates. I don’t think a visit like this is a time to make a political statement. HOWEVER, if he feels that strongly, I do give him props him for being [diplomatic](http://espn.go.com/boston/nhl/story/_/id/7493826/barack-obama-honors-stanley-cup-champion-boston-bruins-tim-thomas-no-show) about it: > [@](#): > > "I believe the Federal government has grown out of control, threatening the Rights, Liberties, and Property of the People. > > This is being done at the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial level. This is in direct opposition to the Constitution and the Founding Fathers vision for the Federal government. > > Because I believe this, today I exercised my right as a Free Citizen, and did not visit the White House. This was not about politics or party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country. This was about a choice I had to make as an INDIVIDUAL. > > This is the only public statement I will be making on this topic. TT" Notice he said nothing about liberals, conservatives, Obama, anything like that. I disagree with his choice, because I really think he let his fellow Bruins down, but I don’t think what he did was a major insult. Unless, of course, you have proof that Thomas is a racist? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/8 "2012-01-24T02:59:12Z")
The only way I think it’s inappropriate is that he left the rest of his team in a very awkward place during the reception. Which is a really shitty thing to do. Were I his coach, I’d have booted that prima dona from the team over that stunt. Other than that, I don’t see anything wrong with giving your own President the finger. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/9 "2012-01-24T03:06:30Z")
“I’d rather vote for a shoe than Obama,” said someone who was interviewed in NH during the primaries. The Right Wing story is that Obama is tearing the nation apart and single-handedly leading us to ruin\*. So it makes perfect sense to refuse the monster’s invite to the White House. \*_and of course this story holds water because all sides of every issue are equal and valid, so if Bush can get blamed for war and death, than Obama sure as heck deserves blame for something equally horrible._ ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/10 "2012-01-24T03:09:51Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > This isn’t a politician, who you would expect to respect decorum and ceremony, but a private citizen making a political statement against the man who holds the Presidency. > > There is absolutely nothing un-American about disrespecting the President. I don’t agree with you much on political issues, but i agree with this. I’ve got no problem with what the player did. ---
**Author:** ![brittekland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aeb1de/32.png) [@brittekland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brittekland)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/11 "2012-01-24T03:15:03Z")
Let this be recorded in the history book as a political-news-worthy notable thing he’s done in his life and let the chips fall where they may. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/12 "2012-01-24T03:15:24Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > The only way I think it’s inappropriate is that he left the rest of his team in a very awkward place during the reception. Which is a really shitty thing to do. Were I his coach, I’d have booted that prima dona from the team over that stunt. > > Other than that, I don’t see anything wrong with giving your own President the finger. Fat chance of that happening – he’s 8th in the league right now as far as wins go. I’ve never heard of him being a jackass, or a primadonna. I highly disagree with his politics, but I’d hardly call him a “primadonna” here. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/13 "2012-01-24T04:03:24Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] I’ve never heard of him being a jackass, or a primadonna. I highly disagree with his politics, but I’d hardly call him a “primadonna” here. [/QUOTE] Rule 1, alinea 1 of team playing: do not drop your mates in the cacky. He’s a prima donna because he ranked satisfying his own ego over doing right by his team mates, simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/14 "2012-01-24T04:05:18Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > The objection to Obama has mostly to do with objection to his race. Politically he’s even more to the center-right than Clinton was, but given the intent of groups like the Tea Party, the pandering of the top Repub presidential candidates to racists by blaming blacks for food stamps, and the fact that hockey is mostly popular in the lower-middle class whites, the reason for an objection to visit the Obama White House by a public figure is all too obvious. Yah, it has nothing to do with the stimulus pork bill that sent trillions of dollars down the drain followed by a health care bill that burdened an already depressed economy. Or the month long delay in foreign relief during the Gulf of Mexico oil spill, or the arbitrary 6 month moratorium on drilling in the gulf that was struck down, or the money thrown away on companies like Solyndra even though his own budget department said it would fail in less than a year, or the cancellation of the pipeline out of Canada, or the increase in energy taxes that will hurt business further. The man doesn’t listen to his own advisers which is critical in a position where he has no background to draw from. The same Tea Party group you think is racist was promoting Cain (who you obviously see as black) because he’s viewed as a successful CEO in a political climate of 4 years of high unemployment. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/15 "2012-01-24T04:10:09Z")
Where are you guys getting the impression that he is dissing Obama personally? Did you not read the quote where he explicitly says: > [@](#): > > This was not about politics or party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country. ? ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/16 "2012-01-24T04:16:19Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yah, it has nothing to do with the stimulus pork bill that sent trillions of dollars down the drain … No Tea Baggers complained when Reagan and the two Bushes blew up the deficit and the dept in unprecedented levels in the history of this country. Because they all three pandered to the racist vote that expected them to do what they did… kill dark-skinned non Christians… and to hell with the economy of this country. That’s why they all got the support of all major Evangelical trash. ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/17 "2012-01-24T04:21:23Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > I’m not sure I remember correctly but there a few, maybe less than 5, show business types, singers or actors, or something similar, that refused a GWB invitation or did not go to a scheduled event at the WH that they were expected to attend as part of a group, team, etc. > > The objection to GWB was always about the blood thirsty war mongers that had the run of the place and GWB lied to intentionally drag the country to a war for no reason. > > The objection to Obama has mostly to do with objection to his race. Politically he’s even more to the center-right than Clinton was, but given the intent of groups like the Tea Party, the pandering of the top Repub presidential candidates to racists by blaming blacks for food stamps, and the fact that **hockey is mostly popular in the lower-middle class whites, the reason for an objection to visit the Obama White House by a public figure is all too obvious.** [False.](http://www.gsb.stanford.edu/news/bmag/sbsm0408/feature_sports.shtml) > [@](#): > > “It all begins with research, research, research,” says Bryan Perez, MBA '96, executive vice president for sales and marketing for the National Hockey League’s Dallas Stars. “We are gathering data on our fans all the time. Not just age, income, and gender. But … what does he like outside of hockey? How much time does he—or she—spend on the computer? How do he and she spend their leisure time away from hockey?” > > Perez’s mission is multiplex. Hockey is by far the smallest of the big four sports in terms of total fan base, television dollars, and sponsorship. However, the **NHL fan base is the most affluent and well educated of the four** , making the expensive full season ticket package a possibility for many. [And:](http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/10/08/us-nhl-idUSTRE6974VM20101008) > [@](#): > > “We’re pretty well-positioned,” Collins said. "The NHL fan demo is the cream of the sports demo; it’s men 18 to 34, more affluent, more tech-savvy than fans of other sports. ---
**Author:** ![Paralogic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Paralogic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paralogic)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/18 "2012-01-24T04:27:07Z")
> [@Trom](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > says Bryan Perez, MBA '96, executive vice president for sales and marketing for the National Hockey League’s Dallas Stars. lol… the humor is only for the minimally smart. like me … 😉 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Trom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/958977/32.png) [@Trom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trom)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/19 "2012-01-24T04:37:03Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > lol… > > the humor is only for the minimally smart. like me … 😉 > > 🙂 Ok… You’re still wrong. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jman/32/4416_2.png) [@Jman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jman)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/20 "2012-01-24T04:41:51Z")
It’s a totally classless move, IMO. Your president, whether you like him or not, asks you to come meet with him, you go. At least, if you have any respect for your country. I hated GWB. Loathed the man. And, people who knew that used to ask me what I’d do if I ever met him in the course of my duties. (I was an Army officer from 2001 to 2008). I always replied, “I’d snap to attention, fire off the sharpest salute I could possibly muster, and greet him warmly, addressing him with a cordial ‘It’s an honor to meet you, Mr. President.’” Look, I massively disagreed with his policies, and if he had invited discussion for some reason, I would have politely and respectfully told him so, but he was the President, and if I purport to love my country, then I darn well better respect its highest office. Same goes here. You can think Obama’s a total tool, but if you purport to love this country, you go. Period. Heck, tell him you think he’s making a horrible mess of things if you get the chance (if done respectfully)…you don’t need to hide your beliefs if you feel strongly, but show some respect for the office and the way our country works. I mean, he’s free to do what he wants to do in this situation, obviously, but I would have a lot more respect for Tim Thomas if he had said “I disagree with what our government is doing right now, and I want it known that when I go to the White House, I’m going to let President Obama know exactly what I think of his policies and the horrible way congress is operating as well.” He sure as heck doesn’t need to endorse the president, but snubbing an invite to the White House just rubs me the wrong way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460.md?page=2)