# Stanley cup winner snubs President for political reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460 "2012-01-24T02:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/81 "2012-01-24T21:18:16Z")
I think my right-wing credentials are pretty well established here, correct? My take (and it would be the same regardless of who the President was): Tim Thomas should have gone to the White House, and gone through the formalities like everybody else on the team. This has nothing to do with ideology, in my book. If, for the sake of argument, my son won a big spelling bee and got invited to the White House, of COURSE I’d go with him. We’d both shake President Obama’s hand, we’d make polite small talk, we’d smile as we posed for our picture, and I wouldn’t say a damn thing to him about politics. To me, this is NOT a political event. This is one of the light-hearted, frivolous ceremonial events that Presidents are expected to take part in. Obama almost certainly wouldn’t be speechifying at such an event, so why would I? If Thomas absolutely COULDN’T bear to be in the same room as Obama for a few minutes, he should have just come up with a plausible excuse or pressing engagement, sent polite regrets and stayed home. This was a big day for his team, and he ruined it for them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/82 "2012-01-24T21:20:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They might disagree with your conclusions, or perhaps the conclusions of 90 percent of the public, but that’s not because of my failure to “get” anything. I’m not saying you don’t get it because you’re not a sports fan or don’t think they’re important. I’m talking about your understanding of the reasons that people like sports. There are insecure people out there who base their self-esteem on sports and just want to feel like they’ve beaten somebody, no question - those people would be unbearable even if sports weren’t a big deal. But I don’t think that’s the reason most people pay attention to sports. It’s because they find the actual action interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/83 "2012-01-24T21:27:49Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But I don’t think that’s the reason most people pay attention to sports. It’s because they find the actual action interesting. I think the entire sports industry, which hinges on rivalry and selling of licensed goods, contradicts that. If what was most important was the actual athletic performance, then people wouldn’t spend so much energy and effort and money displaying their team loyalties. And there would be practically no interest at all in losing teams. There would be a lot less profit in sports overall. > [@astorian](#): > > To me, this is NOT a political event. This is one of the light-hearted, frivolous ceremonial events that Presidents are expected to take part in. I think I’ve made my position clear, but if it’s not a political event, then don’t invite a politician to headline it. That’s what a president is and what a president should be. > [@](#): > > This was a big day for his team, and he ruined it for them. If his principled stand “ruined” their day, then they’re the ones who need to grow up. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/84 "2012-01-24T21:28:45Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yes. The head of state kisses babies, welcomes dignitaries, receives ambassadors, tours the regions, and opens new arts centres. Meanwhile, the head of government gets down and dirty with the other politicians, gets slagged in the press, receives pies and protests in the face, and fends off attackers with statuary. > > IMHO, the US really needs to separate the two offices, so that people can disagree with the policies of the president without insulting the symbols of the United States. I’m more interested in keeping someone with an important job from wasting time with such matters. I don’t give a hoot about anyone “insulting” symbols, if that’s even possible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/85 "2012-01-24T21:35:22Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > I’m more interested in keeping someone with an important job from wasting time with such matters. I don’t give a hoot about anyone “insulting” symbols, if that’s even possible. Yeah, if symbols aren’t people, then you can’t insult them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/86 "2012-01-24T21:47:09Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think the entire sports industry, which hinges on rivalry and selling of licensed goods, contradicts that. If what was most important was the actual athletic performance, then people wouldn’t spend so much energy and effort and money displaying their team loyalties. How do you figure? People do that with everything - look at music, social media, bumper stickers or anything else. Whatever the medium is, people will end up identifying with it and using it to express themselves. > [@](#): > > And there would be practically no interest at all in losing teams. That’s not unheard of. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/87 "2012-01-24T21:57:24Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > \ > If his principled stand “ruined” their day, then they’re the ones who need to grow up. If all but one of his teammates aren’t US Americans, I doubt their day was ruined (or that they cared very much about his political stance). ---
**Author:** ![Anduril](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Anduril](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anduril)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/88 "2012-01-24T22:21:18Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > The objection to Obama has mostly to do with objection to his race. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/89 "2012-01-24T22:31:44Z")
> [@Anduril](#): > > Cite? Since **Paralogic** was a sock and has been banned, I don’t think he’s going to post a cite. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/90 "2012-01-24T22:37:19Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > I think I’ve made my position clear, but if it’s not a political event, then don’t invite a politician to headline it. That’s what a president is and what a president should be. He’s also the chief executive among a number of other things that have nothing to do with politics. The fact the you cannot separate the two is pretty surprising. > [@Acsenray](#): > > If his principled stand “ruined” their day, then they’re the ones who need to grow up. Why? You don’t think it’s problematic that what would have otherwise been a celebration of their victory has become a story about how one person decided he was above going to a team event? As an aside, this kind of stuff is typically what destroys championship sports teams: when people put themselves above the team. Usually, it’s a clash of egos, or financial concerns, but often times it’s just when one guy decides his “rights” and “prerogatives” are more important than the team. Notice his statement did not even mention his TEAM, and their concerns or needs. Just what he wanted to do. Furthermore, as already mentioned, Tim Thomas is a goddamn liar and a hypocrite. See [here](http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/bruins-mvp-tim-thomas-skips-white-house-event-203636656.html): > [@](#): > > Bruins GM Peter Chiarelli confirmed that Thomas had told him months ago he would not attend the White House event **due to his political and ideological differences with the Obama administration**. Chiarelli said he had tried to convince Thomas to attend the event “over the last couple months” to no avail… > > While his politics aren’t common knowledge among many hockey fans, Thomas hasn’t hidden his political leanings. He’s a fan of former Fox News channel host Glenn Beck, once saying he aspired to appear on Beck’s talk show as a guest. > > Big Government, a website founded by conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart, celebrated Thomas as a “true Tea Party patriot” for having “In God We Trust” and the Gadsden flag on his mask. From Big Government: > > _“In addition to displaying his support for the Tea Party on the ice, Thomas is a FreedomWorks donor, giving generously right before the historic November 2010 elections, according to the FEC.”_ > > Chiarelli said he hoped Thomas’ decision not to attend the White House event wouldn’t overshadow the Bruins’ day. > > “We’re like a family. We have our issues. You deal with them and move on, and try and support everyone,” he said. “It may or may not. If it does … I hope it doesn’t. The guys enjoyed the day.” So his facebook post is full of shit, plain and simple. He should just be a man, and say his true reasons for not going, or be a good teammate, and attend for their sake. Clearly he has every right not to attend, but to lie about his rationale makes he think he is just a huge asshole. Especially since he doesn’t seem to have any problem playing in an arena partially [financed](http://www.insidearenas.com/eastern/TDGarden.htm) the government. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/91 "2012-01-25T00:10:30Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > As the OP said, I would have applauded it if someone had done this to Bush, so I’ll have to say that it’s just as valid to do this to Obama. > > Frankly, though, I don’t think presidents should be wasting their time feting millionaire professional athletes and bowing to the petty tribalism that is sports enthusiasm. Sports is not art, culture, literature, or philosophy. And it’s entertainment in only the basest sense – the joy of defeating one’s fellow humans – something that perhaps the auspices of the political state shouldn’t indulge. Oh here we go, the “sports is teh stoopid” crowd, right on time! Question – do hockey teams usually visit the prime minister of Canada, or do they only do that with Canadian teams? > [@Kobal2](#): > > Wait, whut ? I’m not sure I’m parsing that statement right. Is he saying that if Bush had invited them because he was a big fan, he would have gone ; but because he invited them out of decorum and the charge of his office, it’s like so whatever ? > > What’s this guy’s position on the field, and does it require one to take many blows to the head ? Linebacker. And as the quote says, he didn’t attend the 2006 visit either – Bush was in office then. So at least he’s consistant. (Note: I’m not a Harrison fan either) (BTW, former teammate Jerome Bettis has said he thinks that Harrison needs to stop his playing style.) The funny thing is that Obama’s a Steelers fan. 😉 Oh, and Matt Cooke has been a good boy this season! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/92 "2012-01-25T00:12:20Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The funny thing is that Obama’s a Steelers fan. 😉 Come to think of it, Rooney was a pretty vocal Obama supporter and he’s now the ambassador to Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/93 "2012-01-25T00:20:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Come to think of it, Rooney was a pretty vocal Obama supporter and he’s now the ambassador to Ireland. True, although he’s actually a registered Republican, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/94 "2012-01-25T01:40:43Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Oh here we go, the “sports is teh stoopid” crowd, right on time! Sorry, no, that’s not my crowd. Sports is not stupid. Sports is simply a physical activity, a fine pastime. Nothing stupid about it. I’m talking about zealous spectatorship of team sports. Even that isn’t stupid. It’s base and barbaric. _Even then_, I have no problem with sports or enthusiasm for sports by itself. I just think it should not be given any more legitimacy by the state than pornography, legal prostitution, alcohol abuse, or gambling. Fine if people want to do it, but let’s keep public officeholders out of it. > [@brickbacon](#): > > He’s also the chief executive among a number of other things that have nothing to do with politics. The fact the you cannot separate the two is pretty surprising. He holds a political office and all his duties as outlined by the Constitution are political duties. The stuff not having to do with running the government is unnecessary. We don’t need it, and the Constitution doesn’t seem to think they’re worth mentioning. The president should execute his duties of office with no more pomp and ceremony than the chief accountant of a mid-size corporation. > [@](#): > > Why? You don’t think it’s problematic that what would have otherwise been a celebration of their victory has become a story about how one person decided he was above going to a team event? No, I don’t. There were a lot of stories in the news today, almost all of them more important, more consequential, or more grave than a hockey team shaking hands with the president. And a man, even a member of that hockey team, standing on his principles is one of those things that is more important. > [@](#): > > As an aside, this kind of stuff is typically what destroys championship sports teams: when people put themselves above the team. A hockey team plays hockey. A professional hockey player plays hockey in exchange for money. When he’s not wearing the team’s uniform, he has no duty to his team, especially on a matter of conscience, like this one. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, as already mentioned, Tim Thomas is a goddamn liar and a hypocrite. That doesn’t change my opinion on the principle of the matter. > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > If all but one of his teammates aren’t US Americans, I doubt their day was ruined (or that they cared very much about his political stance). If that’s the case, then my opinion of them has risen. > [@Marley23](#): > > How do you figure? People do that with everything - look at music, social media, bumper stickers or anything else. Whatever the medium is, people will end up identifying with it and using it to express themselves. That’s interesting in theory. I have the context of actual experience to inform my conclusions. While there are occasionally some stupid rivalries over pop bands (particularly in the U.K., like the Motley Crue-Quiet Riot or Oasis-Blur rivalry), that kind of thing doesn’t have the pervasive one-upmanship character of sports fandom. Students at Penn State tailgate parties routinely declare “Michigan sucks!” even when they’re not playing Michigan. And that kind of thing exists with every kind of team sports at every level, among almost every subset or social group in our society. It’s tribalism, pure and simple. > [@](#): > > That’s not unheard of. Yeah, somehow they still manage to earn tens or hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue annually. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/95 "2012-01-25T01:51:36Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > \ > Question – do hockey teams usually visit the prime minister of Canada, or do they only do that with Canadian teams? \ That’s a good question - do you mean would a Canadian team visit with the Prime Minister if they won the Stanley Cup? > [@Acsenray](#): > > \ > If that’s the case, then my opinion of them has risen.\ It sounds like Thomas is a Tea Partier - I’m guessing his teammates are used to rolling their eyes and ignoring him. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/96 "2012-01-25T01:58:10Z")
Priorities, folks, priorities. In Canada, the Prime Minister visits the sports team. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/97 "2012-01-25T02:29:35Z")
I have mixed feelings about this. Players are supposed to engage in whatever public relations shtick is outlined in their contract. But on the flip side the President of the United States is not royalty. I see no reason why someone should be expected to jump because of a Presidential invitation. On top of that a winning team is being used as photo shoot for a politician and that shouldn’t be a function of anyone’s contract. This is probably why the owner didn’t press the issue. He would have lost. A phone call would have sufficed to congratulate them if the President followed the sport. If the President attended the game as a fan then the polite thing to do would be to shake his hand if offered. But taking time out to be a politician’s backdrop shouldn’t be expected of anyone. For those who suggested that Thomas was a hypocrite and a liar I would forward the idea that he was being polite and that the owner of the team is the person who turned this into a public/political statement. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/98 "2012-01-25T02:34:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Question – do hockey teams usually visit the prime minister of Canada, or do they only do that with Canadian teams? It’s been so long, we forget. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/99 "2012-01-25T03:13:50Z")
Isn’t the Prime Minister usually at the game? I think I can recall seeing PMs at Stanley Cup hockey games (not sure if they were in power at the time, though). ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/100 "2012-01-25T05:32:33Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > I have mixed feelings about this. Players are supposed to engage in whatever public relations shtick is outlined in their contract. But on the flip side the President of the United States is not royalty. I see no reason why someone should be expected to jump because of a Presidential invitation. On top of that a winning team is being used as photo shoot for a politician and that shouldn’t be a function of anyone’s contract. This is probably why the owner didn’t press the issue. He would have lost. Lost how? It’s his team, so there is no way he could have “lost” anything assuming he wanted to press the issue. Either way, I am not sure why you think this is any different than any other public relations event that athletes are required to go through. Do you think every NFL players wants to visit sick kids at hospitals, get fined for off the field remarks/actions, or do interviews after games? Does every NBA (or NHL) player want to follow a formal [dress code](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_dress_code)? Probably not, but they have to because they want to play the game. Regardless of how you feel about the president, when a team is extended an invitation, it reflects well on the team and the league. Going to the White House is no different than any other press event or photo op designed to promote the league. Thomas, being a lying, tactless jerk reflects poorly on the Bruins and the NHL. I, for one, can attest that this guy’s actions have convinced me to continue ignoring the Boston Bruins. > [@Magiver](#): > > For those who suggested that Thomas was a hypocrite and a liar I would forward the idea that he was being polite and that the owner of the team is the person who turned this into a public/political statement. It seems there is clear evidence he lied. That is not polite in any sense. He could have expressed his disagreement with the president tactfully, while acknowledging his true feelings and reasons for not going. Instead, he lied. there is nothing admirable about that. Furthermore, this is hardly something the owner dreamed up. The champions of most major sports (and some Olympians) meet the President. It’s not a political statement, it’s a way to promote the sport, and show respect for the office. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460.md?page=6)