# Stanley cup winner snubs President for political reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 24, 2012, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460 "2012-01-24T02:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/101 "2012-01-25T05:54:42Z")
Another vote for dick move by Thomas. If the President invites you to the White House as part of a team recognition ceremony thing, you go, shake his hand, and otherwise make polite noises. It’s not about politics. ---
**Author:** ![INETADV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/d9b06d/32.png) [@INETADV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/INETADV)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/102 "2012-01-25T09:52:52Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Is this sort of thing common? I don’t recall any sports athletes doing this to Bush but I could be mistaken. > > [http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html](http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/01/boston-bruins-goalie-snubs-president-obama-111928.html) > > In any event I saw this and at first I was a bit offended then I realized that I wouldn’t have been offended if this was Bush and to some people, Obama is as bad a President as Bush was to me (I don’t think this is reasonable but if political speech is limited to reasonable speech, politicians would have almost nothing to say). > > So is it appropriate for a sports athlete to express themselves this way or is this guy being a bit self centered by making a statement with a team victory? > > ETA: please move this to elections if that is where we put all the domestic political stuff now. “Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein was conspicuously missing from both White House visits in 2004 and 2007 when Republican President George W. Bush was in office.” For all you yip-yapping liberal toads, Thomas was just an individual MEMBER of a championship team. THEO EPSTEIN WAS THE FACE OF UPPER MANAGEMENT - THE GM! AND he did it not just ONCE, but repeated his ‘statement’ of dissent 3 years later when he supposedly would have had the benefit of more maturity and self-reflection on the impact of his first snub!! Were all of you howling in indignity when Theo snubbed Bush … TWICE, decrying his behavior as selfish and inappropriate and impervious to input from those around him - ESPECIALLY given his position of prominence as a representative of the Sox and Boston!!! Oh yes, I’m SURE you were, since liberals are SO principled and apply their ‘rules’ equally without bias or judgment. (… yah, right!!) The Hockey News’ Ken Campbell disagrees (with the disparagement of Thomas), saying: “This is not Michael Moore saying “Shame on you, George Bush,” at the Academy Awards or the Dixie Chicks calling Bush a moron – which are both entirely acceptable as well, but far more controversial. This was a very thoughtful, articulate and pensive athlete respectfully declining an invitation.” ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/103 "2012-01-25T10:06:12Z")
> [@INETADV](#): > > For all you yip-yapping liberal toads, :rolleyes: Way to make an impression with your first post. And, btw, I happen to be a conservative amphibian, who rarely yips or yaps. ---
**Author:** ![brocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7feea3/32.png) [@brocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brocks)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/104 "2012-01-25T10:28:48Z")
> [@Paralogic](#): > > the fact that hockey is mostly popular in the lower-middle class whites, the reason for an objection to visit the Obama White House by a public figure is all too obvious. I doubt that he polled hockey fans before he did this. He is, in fact, a RICH white guy, and they object to Obama because he wants to revoke the Bush tax cuts for rich people. Some golfers on the 1993 Ryder Cup team, also rich and white, did not want to meet President Clinton, but cooler heads prevailed and they went. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/105 "2012-01-25T11:47:09Z")
> [@INETADV](#): > > For all you yip-yapping liberal toads, . . . . Do not insult other posters outside The BBQ Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/106 "2012-01-25T13:40:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > The response was to a question about James Harrison, NFL linebacker. I made the same error. Needless to say, I won’t be asking you for a cite on the claim that Harrison is known as a dirty player. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/107 "2012-01-25T14:44:38Z")
> [@INETADV](#): > > “Red Sox general manager Theo Epstein was conspicuously missing from both White House visits in 2004 and 2007 when Republican President George W. Bush was in office.” > For all you yip-yapping liberal toads, Thomas was just an individual MEMBER of a championship team. THEO EPSTEIN WAS THE FACE OF UPPER MANAGEMENT - THE GM! AND he did it not just ONCE, but repeated his ‘statement’ of dissent 3 years later when he supposedly would have had the benefit of more maturity and self-reflection on the impact of his first snub!! This is false. [Cite](http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/16128/before-tim-thomas-there-was-manny): > [@](#): > > Not true. Epstein, who had made a campaign appearance on behalf of John Kerry, was not on the stage when President Bush honored the team in 2005, choosing to sit in the front row of the audience next to Stacy Lucchino, wife of the Sox CEO. The reason, he said, was because he wanted attention focused on those most deserving. And Epstein was with the group of players who subsequently visited wounded vets at the Walter Reed Medical Center. > > Bush was still in office when the Sox won again in 2007. Epstein did not attend the ’08 ceremony, citing “family reasons,” and his absence barely registered. But good to know you checked your claims unlike some “liberal toad”. That said, if he had decided not to attend for political reasons, I would be come down as hard on him as I have on Thomas. That said, I am waiting for your retraction and apology. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/108 "2012-01-25T14:56:37Z")
Local hockey station personality, [Bill Watters](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Watters) who knows Tim thinks that Tim he knows would never do that and that someone might have nudged him a bit to do what he did. If you’re in Toronto area you take Bill’s word for it. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/109 "2012-01-25T14:57:25Z")
> [@INETADV](#): > > For all you … liberal … Have you even read this thread? If you had, you might have noticed that this is not going down liberal-conservative lines. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/110 "2012-01-25T15:24:51Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Local hockey station personality, [Bill Watters](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Watters) who knows Tim thinks that Tim he knows would never do that and that someone might have nudged him a bit to do what he did. > > If you’re in Toronto area you take Bill’s word for it. Why? What was his reasoning, and does he know Thomas? ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/111 "2012-01-25T15:45:21Z")
So either Tim Thomas is a fine Tea Party Stalwart or a little pussy who lets people tell him what to do. I’m not sure which one reflects more negatively on him. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/112 "2012-01-25T18:22:56Z")
I’m a big Bruins fan, and I’ve always liked Thomas, but I admit that this leaves a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I respect his right not to go, but I wish he would just have shut up, gone, and not made it about him. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/113 "2012-01-25T18:37:43Z")
I’m not sure that’s fair. His statement was posted on [NHL.com](http://NHL.com), and I suspect it was the league or the team that made him post one at all. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/114 "2012-01-25T19:18:27Z")
Why didn’t he exercise his Rights as an INDIVIDUAL and tell them to go pound sand? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/115 "2012-01-25T19:31:35Z")
I seriously doubt that the NHL would have \*made \*him post a statement of any kind, but especially not one that would be at all controversial. Hell, I’m surprised that the NHL (which is, of course, a business) \*let \*him post that on their website. Not when it would have been the easiest thing in the world to simply leave it at “Tim couldn’t be with us today.” ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/116 "2012-01-25T19:37:46Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I’m not sure that’s fair. His statement was posted on [NHL.com](http://NHL.com), and I suspect it was the league or the team that made him post one at all. He posted it on his Facebook page first, as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/117 "2012-01-25T19:52:13Z")
In the spirit of completeness, Chicago White Sox manger Ozzie Guillen also skipped the trip to the White House to visit then President Bush after the Sox’s 2005 World Series win. If memory serves, Guillen’s reasons were that the visit had been rescheduled a couple of times and that he was visiting with his family in his home country of Venezuela on the date the event was rescheduled to, and besides as a Venezuelan citizen he didn’t feel any particular need to visit with the American president. Some people got upset with Ozzie about this, but because there are always some people upset with Ozzie about something he didn’t take much notice of it. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/118 "2012-01-25T19:54:51Z")
I’m just glad Thomas is actually a US citizen, and not one of the 57 Canadians on the team. Now _that_ would have sucked. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/119 "2012-01-25T20:52:07Z")
> [@zamboniracer](#): > > In the spirit of completeness, Chicago White Sox manger Ozzie Guillen also skipped the trip to the White House to visit then President Bush after the Sox’s 2005 World Series win. If memory serves, Guillen’s reasons were that the visit had been rescheduled a couple of times and that he was visiting with his family in his home country of Venezuela on the date the event was rescheduled to, and besides as a Venezuelan citizen he didn’t feel any particular need to visit with the American president. Some people got upset with Ozzie about this, but because there are always some people upset with Ozzie about something he didn’t take much notice of it. At least he had a legitimate logistical issue. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460/120 "2012-01-25T21:04:39Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > At least he had a legitimate logistical issue. Still, the punishment was pretty stiff: he’s going to have to wear those hideous Marlins uniforms for at least a couple of years. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stanley-cup-winner-snubs-president-for-political-reasons/610460.md?page=7)