# Star Trek - 'All stop!' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751 "2019-10-14T15:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/21 "2019-10-14T23:25:35Z")
Ships in the Star Trek universe have an up/down orientation, and when two ships encounter one another they are always the same way up. It applies to other objects too. It would be much more realistic if, when they encountered a giant disembodied floating head in space, it wasn’t always in the same up/down orientation as the ship. In order to be scientifically accurate, giant disembodied floating heads might be discovered in _any_ orientation. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/22 "2019-10-14T23:29:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Ships in the Star Trek universe have an up/down orientation, and when two ships encounter one another they are always the same way up. It applies to other objects too. It would be much more realistic if, when they encountered a giant disembodied floating head in space, it wasn’t always in the same up/down orientation as the ship. In order to be scientifically accurate, giant disembodied floating heads might be discovered in _any_ orientation. [Well yes, except for that one time.](http://www.thesearethevoyagesbooks.com/the-tholian-web.html) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/23 "2019-10-14T23:33:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > More than once, they’ve ‘stopped’ in open space with no reference point. They have a Galactic coordinate system with reference to fixed stars. It would be impossible to navigate through the Galaxy without one. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/24 "2019-10-14T23:43:04Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In order to be scientifically accurate, giant disembodied floating heads might be discovered in _any_ orientation. Might be difficult to communicate with one, unless you’re looking it in the face. If you’re stopped in space, you don’t want to present your beam (or spine, or belly, or stern) to another (potentially hostile) vessel unnecessarily. It makes perfect sense to position yourself bow-to-bow. There was at least one episode of \*\*\*TNG \*\*\*(I don’t remember which) where Riker ordered the helm to maintain a synchronous orbit over a planet’s north pole. He made a lot of mistakes like this, e.g., giving temperatures in “degrees Kelvin.” ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/25 "2019-10-14T23:44:59Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > They have a Galactic coordinate system with reference to fixed stars. It would be impossible to navigate through the Galaxy without one. Yes, and I suspect that with their level of technology, it’s easy to determine your motion relative to them with speed and precision. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/26 "2019-10-14T23:45:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > All Star Fleet uniforms have threads of upsydaisium woven into them. Upsidaisium. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2019, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/27 "2019-10-14T23:56:05Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Yes, and I suspect that with their level of technology, it’s easy to determine your motion relative to them with speed and precision. Hell, the Apollo astronauts were doing this back in the 1960s. It proved especially critical during the Apollo 13 mission. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/28 "2019-10-15T03:07:09Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > More than once, they’ve ‘stopped’ in open space with no reference point. Maybe it just means “drop out of warp and drift” if there’s no point of reference? Like “stop the engines”, not “come to a complete stop”? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/29 "2019-10-15T06:16:25Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > Maybe it just means “drop out of warp and drift” if there’s no point of reference? Like “stop the engines”, not “come to a complete stop”? At the end of the Doomsday Machine, Kirk orders minimum headway while they make repairs to the warp engines. I can see this on the water where it might maintain stability, but it makes no sense at all in space. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/30 "2019-10-15T08:22:14Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > At the end of the Doomsday Machine, Kirk orders minimum headway while they make repairs to the warp engines. I can see this on the water where it might maintain stability, but it makes no sense at all in space. Not even if the engines are damaged? :dubious: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/31 "2019-10-15T08:40:50Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Most of the time a ship on _Star Trek_ does not stop when it approaches a planet; instead it goes into something called a ‘standard orbit’. The standard orbit concept doesn’t seem to have a simple definition, like much else in the show. > [Orbit | Memory Alpha | Fandom](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Orbit) The definition given for a polar orbit is misleading. If you examine the diagram for the _Nimbus_ satellite carefully, you’ll see that the 22,300 mile altitude was needed to provide a full-hemisphere view of the Earth. In reality, a polar orbit can be at almost \*\*any \*\*altitude above the atmosphere, depending on the spacecraft’s mission. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/32 "2019-10-15T09:04:25Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Not even if the engines are damaged? :dubious: 😕 You would turn the engines off if they are damaged. But then you’d just keep going at the same velocity. The idea that you would make “minimum headway” is the issue that the OP raised - relative to what? Unlike a ship in the ocean, there’s no friction to slow you down when you turn the engines off, and there’s no ocean to be not making headway relative to. Although, back to the OP, it’s worth noting that the Cosmic Microwave Background does define a particular reference frame, and one that’s detectable by observation. I don’t know if that’s something you can fanwank into it. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/33 "2019-10-15T14:07:02Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > This has nothing to do specifically with Star Trek; it’s just naval terminology. “All stop” is an order to the engine room to stop the engines. If they really wanted to slow down fast, they would order “full astern” or something similar. To further amplify, the “All” part is because, unlike merchant ships, naval ships commonly have two, four, or even [six](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_monitor_Vitse-admiral_Popov) screws. The ship can be turned faster with an order such as, “Port ahead full, starboard back full.” This is why there is a [telegraph](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_order_telegraph#/media/File:Annunciator.jpg) for each screw. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/34 "2019-10-15T14:17:36Z")
Speaking of all stop, in [del] The Enemy Below[/del] Balance of Terror, why does everyone on the Enterprise have to be vewy vewy qwiet while waiting out the Romulans? They could have the largest rave in the Alpha quadrant and the Romulans couldn’t hear it if they were five feet away. But they really should turn off the flashing lights. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/35 "2019-10-15T14:25:35Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > Speaking of all stop, in [del] The Enemy Below[/del] Balance of Terror, why does everyone on the Enterprise have to be vewy vewy qwiet while waiting out the Romulans? They could have the largest rave in the Alpha quadrant and the Romulans couldn’t hear it if they were five feet away. Because, clearly, everyone in _Balance of Terror_ realized that they were actually in a WWII submarine combat story. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/36 "2019-10-15T14:40:49Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Because, clearly, everyone in _Balance of Terror_ realized that they were actually in a WWII submarine combat story. 😃 I fan wank that by saying that the other guy’s sensors can pick up the minute vibration of the ship’s surface due to internal noise. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/37 "2019-10-15T17:36:50Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > Not even if the engines are damaged? :dubious: 😕 Why run the engines at all? And the impulse engines were fine, not that they were going to get them anywhere interesting in a day. The remaster shows the rubble of the destroyed planet around the Enterprise, so that could be a reason to get out of there, but he didn’t say that. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/38 "2019-10-15T17:40:06Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > You would turn the engines off if they are damaged. But then you’d just keep going at the same velocity. The idea that you would make “minimum headway” is the issue that the OP raised - relative to what? Unlike a ship in the ocean, there’s no friction to slow you down when you turn the engines off, and there’s no ocean to be not making headway relative to. > > Although, back to the OP, it’s worth noting that the Cosmic Microwave Background does define a particular reference frame, and one that’s detectable by observation. I don’t know if that’s something you can fanwank into it. That too. If I needed a reference point, I’d use the black hole in the center of the galaxy which maybe could serve as a reference point, its mass being so big. But I don’t think we knew about that in 1966. We didn’t know about it when Niven wrote “At the Core.” ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/39 "2019-10-15T17:41:11Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Because, clearly, everyone in _Balance of Terror_ realized that they were actually in a WWII submarine combat story. 😃 And BTW, the submarine combat story it is based on is a great movie. Check it out. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751/40 "2019-10-15T17:48:43Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > And BTW, the submarine combat story it is based on is a great movie. Check it out. I didn’t realize that it was based on a particular sub story. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-all-stop/841751.md?page=3)