# Star Trek and the Relativity of Morality. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 13, 2016, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664 "2016-05-13T09:44:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/21 "2016-05-14T22:45:29Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Original Star Trek achieved brilliance with “Devil in the Dark” when the “horrible monster” was revealed to be a mommy protecting her eggs. That was the moment when they showed “moral relativism” to be a damned fine way of looking at situations. > > It was a recurring motif in the series. It was parodied heavily in “Let That Be Your Last Battleground,” with the black/white and white/black aliens, but, ham-fisted as that episode was, the moral lesson was valuable. And the Romulans had plenty of redeeming factors, and did things for their own purposes, not just out of pure evil. And when the Klingons were introduced in Errand of Mercy we found that both Kirk and the Klingon commander were equally offended at the Organians stopping their war, much to Spock’s amusement. Though Kirk realized what he was doing. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/22 "2016-05-14T22:56:57Z")
> [@OHS201](#): > > During TOS, the idea was always about the “brotherhood of humankind”, so including a Russian and a black woman on the main crew of an adventuring expedition was ground-breaking (not to mention an alien, so “humankind” was very inclusive.) And most monsters (like the salt-eating lady) were rarely shown as just evil. > > [Side comment: I wish there were a non-gendered word for “brotherhood” but "brother-and-sister-hood is just too awkward.] Don’t forget the Japanese. > [@Alessan](#): > > Are the Borg an actual species, or just a contagious disease that infects sentient beings? Aren’t they just a zombie virus with warp drives? You wouldn’t say that if you’d ever kissed one of their queens. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/23 "2016-05-15T01:10:07Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I think this bolsters your theory about challenging and annoying Picard! Leaving aside Voyager, Q is very clearly acting to mess with Picard, and likely manipulating a great many things to help him along. Truth be told, we don’t even really know how much of what we’re told about him is valid. Given his reality-warping abilities, it’s hard to tell how serious he ever is or was about things. What we do know is that Q made some major changes… all of which had the effect of changing Picard for the better. Even one of his cruelest tricks, dumping the Enterprise in front of the Borg, turned out to have some major advantages down the line, and gave the good guys a chance to defeat them. (Twice!) But Picard also learned a lot more humility, and experienced existence far outside his own. In the final episode, Humanity exists because Picard stopped thinking in terms of forwar-moving time, and for a moment saw reality like Q does - past, present, and future all as possibilities to be explored. Also, if you look at the first season of Deep Space 9, you see Sisko punch Q right in the face. This makes _way_ more sense once you see the final season. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/24 "2016-05-15T14:40:15Z")
It’s funny because in TOS the Romulans were about Honor and respect for your enemy (at least many of them were presented that way) while Klingons were win at all cost types. That started to change in the movies when Star Trek III was originally written with Romulans in mind but was changed to Klingons and the script was not rewritten so many Romulan aspects (Cloaking Devices, Bird of Prey type ships, some with a sense of honor) were transported over to the Klingons. TNG took that ball and ran with it when they developed Klingon culture further. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2016, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/25 "2016-05-15T23:54:50Z")
“When a Klingon speaks of ‘honor’ substitute the word ‘renown.’” ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/26 "2016-05-16T16:46:34Z")
Humanity is (willfully?) blind to it’s own biases. From Star Trek VI: > [@](#): > > Captain James T. Kirk: Spock, you want to know something? Everybody’s human. > > Captain Spock: I find that remark… insulting. Also, at the dinner the Chancellor attends on the _Enterprise_, is pointed out how humans judge other species and cultures through their own tinted lenses (and few of the humans at the table were truly listening). “Star Fleet is a Homo Sapiens only club. Present company excepted, of course.” ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/27 "2016-05-16T19:47:16Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > It’s funny because in TOS the Romulans were about Honor and respect for your enemy (at least many of them were presented that way) while Klingons were win at all cost types. My personal fanwank is that the events of Star Trek 6 humiliated the Klingons as a culture. As a result the Klingon leadership over emphasised their honour code to keep the empire intact. The effects of this are still visible in the 24th century. I can’t believe a society so obsessed with honour cannot function well for very long. My theory is that the empire would probably change back to a more practical outlook after the Dominion war. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/28 "2016-05-16T20:19:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Original Star Trek achieved brilliance with “Devil in the Dark” when the “horrible monster” was revealed to be a mommy protecting her eggs. That was the moment when they showed “moral relativism” to be a damned fine way of looking at situations. > > It was a recurring motif in the series. It was parodied heavily in “Let That Be Your Last Battleground,” with the black/white and white/black aliens, but, ham-fisted as that episode was, the moral lesson was valuable. Also consider the Gorn from “The Arena” where at first they were presented as evil for destroying the colony and of course they certainly looked like monsters. But then we find out they were only protecting their world and Spock and McCoy argue; “Is it true? Could we have been in the wrong? Possibly. Then this affair needs to be handled by diplomats”. Sidenote: I only wish they would have had more episodes with the Gorn. ---
**Author:** ![CaptMurdock](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/captmurdock/32/11736_2.png) [@CaptMurdock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CaptMurdock)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/29 "2016-05-16T22:10:28Z")
> [@OHS201](#): > > [Side comment: I wish there were a non-gendered word for “brotherhood” but "brother-and-sister-hood is just too awkward.] Try “kinship”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/30 "2016-05-16T22:23:36Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > My personal fanwank is that the events of Star Trek 6 humiliated the Klingons as a culture. As a result the Klingon leadership over emphasised their honour code to keep the empire intact. The effects of this are still visible in the 24th century. > > I can’t believe a society so obsessed with honour cannot function well for very long. My theory is that the empire would probably change back to a more practical outlook after the Dominion war. As previously posted, Klingon honor is more about public “face” than a code of ethics as such. There are certainly things you don’t do, but their view was always about finding a way to stand out and be recognized for achievement. Certainly the upper class seemed to obsess over military matters, but that’s hardly unusual or limited to Klingons. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2016, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664/31 "2016-05-17T00:16:50Z")
Plus I always imagined the rules and customs and restrictions were more for the ruling houses and elites. I assumed every day Klingons lived mostly however the wanted to. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-and-the-relativity-of-morality/754664.md?page=1)