# Star Trek Beyond: The Sulu Controversy (minor spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853 "2016-07-25T14:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/21 "2016-07-25T18:44:31Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I don’t recall anything in TOS canon about Sulu’s being straight. Back then, of course, we assume all characters were straight, but that’s not the same thing. Did he have a wife, finance or GF? I don’t recall him ever being shown with a romantic interest. That is not to say I recall everything, but if someone has a tidbit about Sulu in TOS that indicated he was straight, that would be of interest. > > I’m just not seeing a big deal here. Take doesn’t own the Sulu character. I believe he smooched Uhura in The Naked Time? Honestly, don’t remember much of what else he was doing in that scene, as he was 1) Shirtless and 2) Wielding a rapier. That’s all I cared about. Mmmm. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/22 "2016-07-25T18:49:49Z")
The Sulu scene is pretty ambigious sans the prior statements made by writers. You can see them as gay, you can also read as close friend/brother, seriously the Bones-Spock interactions are have more “homo” scenes. Which makes me wonder, whether they did edit it before release. The rest of the complaints in the OP, are just ignorant and stupid, with reaps , and from a poster who is usually intelligent. Cumberbatch in his Khan/Harrison character would not garner a second look if he was dropped in the Punjab or the Frontier. The “Indian” character was Cuban played by a Pakistani. Jake Gyllenhal would have not had much problem fitting in in Tehran with the looks he has in the movie. There is some overlap between Middle Eastern and South Asian phenotypes and European ones, enough that some people from one ethnicity can convincingly play the other, for instance Omar Shariff. Or Irene Papas. Does the OP have issues with the Iraqi Sayid from Lost being played by the most Tamil looking person ever? Or is it just Europeans? Seriously it was like Javier Bardam playing a Swede. The character in Aloha was supposed to be a mixed race person who looked white, like the real person she was based upon. Gods of Egypt was about supernatural beings, not humans and Gerad Butler was a good choice, Seth in Egyptian mythology was supposed to be red haired anyway. Was the OP upset at Yul Brenner playing Ramaes II in the Ten Commandments? The real Ramses II was red headed, is she against gingers? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/23 "2016-07-25T18:52:21Z")
Wait, making an Asian character gay is somehow disenfranchising Asians? What the fuck kind of homophobic bullshit is _that_? ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/24 "2016-07-25T18:55:10Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > I had to look up to remember who Masrani was, as I only saw the movie once and wasn’t too impressed. Masrani, the guy who reopened the new dinosaur park and caused another outbreak? masrani, the guy who was behind Indominus Rex? That guy? > > Yeah, he’s not comic relief, I’ll give you that! I think you’re misreading his character (I’m being serious BTW, not playing devil’s advocate). The park was successful and safe for 20+ years. He was the CEO of a huge company visiting the park to see the new dinosaur his subordinates had created, and it was clear he wasn’t perfectly happy with what he saw: Claire: We have the best structural engineers in the world. Masrani: So did Hammond. Then he has them bring Chris Pratt in to get his opinion on the project. Once it gets free, his only priority is to get the tourists to safety. In the end he volunteered to fly the helicopter to try to kill the Indominus Rex, because it was his duty to do so. As far as CEOs of huge corporations usually get treated in movies, he was practically a hero. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/25 "2016-07-25T18:59:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wait, making an Asian character gay is somehow disenfranchising Asians? What the fuck kind of homophobic bullshit is _that_? Right. Not to mention the fact(s) that giving Sulu a husband and child in this episode and timeline does not mean that he 1. Could not have had heterosexual attractions or relationships in the past or 2. That he was closeted before. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/26 "2016-07-25T19:03:44Z")
The REAL litmus test of PCness. WHICH bathroom do they show Sulu using? ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/27 "2016-07-25T19:10:20Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And out of curiosity, is his husband also Asian? No, he is a [white guy.](http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080602/george_takei.jpg) Brad Altman is his name. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/28 "2016-07-25T19:17:54Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > No, he is a [white guy.](http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2008/news/080602/george_takei.jpg) Brad Altman is his name. That’s Takei’s husband. Sulu’s husband, Ben, is played by Doug Jung, one of the writers. Here’s an article talking about how Cho pushed for an Asian actor (caution: Autoplay) [Why John Cho wanted Sulu’s husband to be Asian in ‘Star Trek Beyond’](https://www.thestar.com/entertainment/2016/07/20/why-john-cho-wanted-sulus-husband-to-be-asian-in-star-trek-beyond.html) ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/29 "2016-07-25T19:19:44Z")
On the one hand I agree with the notion that Hollywood, as an industry, has a long way to go to be inclusive. And at times IMHO they are down right stoopid (Dr. Strange). I am constantly watching movies with an eye for non-standard casting. For example, I would have loved the idea of say “The Martian” with a middle aged stocky Philippine woman. There was nothing other than box office consideration that required that character to be a white guy. Hollywood needs to think outside of that box. I do see movies and TV shows pushing into the direction of diversity, but it seems to me that it is so often in frankly cheesy shows where the team is an ethnic rainbow of hot guys and hot chicks, none of whom resemble a real person anyway - and the rainbow people are in supporting roles. All that said, I would be a little concerned about what I see as a slippery slope. As AK84 pointed out above, we can get very granular in our criticism. A Tamil portraying an Iraqui is as ridiculous to someone from that part of the world as Emma Stone portraying a Chinese/Hawaiian character is to, well, everyone. But do we end up getting caught up when a person of Korean heritage (John Cho) is portraying a Japanese person (Sulu)? Should we? Is there an acceptable measure of “close enough”? On the flip-side, do we demand that an actor of heritage A is never given the opportunity to play a character of heritage B? After all, Hamlet is Danish, so nobody but a Danish person should portray Hamlet? I mean, that is the basis of acting, portraying someone not yourself, yah? ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/30 "2016-07-25T19:21:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Wait, making an Asian character gay is somehow disenfranchising Asians? What the fuck kind of homophobic bullshit is _that_? I’m not homophobic, and I think my record on this board speaks well enough for me, but if you choose to believe that’s at the core of my words, then that’s your choice. I would hope you know me better by now. I think I already listed my objections up above. I could repeat them, but I don’t think I need to. You either think my issues are valid, or you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/31 "2016-07-25T19:35:45Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > On the one hand I agree with the notion that Hollywood, as an industry, has a long way to go to be inclusive. And at times IMHO they are down right stoopid (Dr. Strange). > > I am constantly watching movies with an eye for non-standard casting. For example, I would have loved the idea of say “The Martian” with a middle aged stocky Philippine woman. There was nothing other than box office consideration that required that character to be a white guy. Hollywood needs to think outside of that box. > > I do see movies and TV shows pushing into the direction of diversity, but it seems to me that it is so often in frankly cheesy shows where the team is an ethnic rainbow of hot guys and hot chicks, none of whom resemble a real person anyway - and the rainbow people are in supporting roles. TV certainly played a huuuuuuge role in making gays more acceptable to main stream Americans. In fact, I’d argue that gay visibility on TV was one of the most significant things that pushed acceptance of gays to become mainstream so quickly. But let’s not get carried away with ourselves here. “Nothing but box office considerations” implies that movie makers have some moral obligation to society to ignore $$ and champion social issues. How about YOU make a move about a stocky, middle aged Filipina stranded on Mars? ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/32 "2016-07-25T19:42:00Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > How about YOU make a move about a stocky, middle aged Filipina stranded on Mars? I’m fairly certain there is a logical fallacy (and a pinch of hostility) at work in that response. I am not a mov(i)e producer, just an interested observer. ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/33 "2016-07-25T19:45:04Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I believe he smooched Uhura in The Naked Time? Honestly, don’t remember much of what else he was doing in that scene, as he was 1) Shirtless and 2) Wielding a rapier. That’s all I cared about. Mmmm. [Mirror](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CJdFppsHeo) Sulu seems heterosexual enough. I don’t recall all of the details of The Naked Now, but I thought he was: [ol] [li]Drunk (or effectively drunk because of the space disease or whatever).[/li][li]Play acting saving the damsel in distress or something, which may mean a female was selected to play the role, despite his sexual preference.[/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/34 "2016-07-25T19:47:21Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > [Mirror](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CJdFppsHeo) Sulu seems heterosexual enough. I think the mirror part kinda kills your argument 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/35 "2016-07-25T19:50:02Z")
At present, China and India represent about a third of the world population, and Asia as a whole represents 60% of the total population. So unless something drastic occurred in the Trek universe, one might reasonably expect to see more Indians, Chinese and other Asians (as well as other non-whites) in Star Trek films and TV shows. (I always understood that Star Fleet was populated by people from all over the world.) ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/36 "2016-07-25T19:51:25Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > The REAL litmus test of PCness. > > WHICH bathroom do they show Sulu using? There are no bathrooms in Star Trek. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/37 "2016-07-25T19:57:38Z")
So they use the closets ?🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/38 "2016-07-25T20:09:15Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > So they use the closets ?🙂 It’s the future. They eliminated the need for elimination. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/39 "2016-07-25T20:20:06Z")
Given the demographic this franchise is going after, I suggest the next movie have an extended lesbian love scene. Extended as in, like, the whole movie. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2016, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/40 "2016-07-25T20:20:44Z")
There’s been longtime pressure to put a gay character in Star Trek. And whatever solution they came up with, adding _another_ character to a bloated cast wasn’t the solution. They already have a problem getting screentime for characters other than Kirk or Spock. While the other characters get some screentime and maybe a character beat or two, they don’t really get much of a storyline or character development. Throwing in a new character would make that even worse, and Pegg is correct, it’d be relegating that person to be the “token gay”. I wasn’t too happy when Uhura’s storyline in the new movies has largely been “Spock’s girlfriend”, but at least it gives the actress something to _do_. Karl Urban doesn’t even get that much. John Cho must have been thrilled with more for Sulu to do, and as an established character he doesn’t end up as the token. I’m really not sure what other option they had, than to expand their cast diversity in this way. Maybe redefine Kirk as pansexual? (seems plausible) Choose Scotty, Bones, or Checkov instead? (prob get the same complaints) I suppose they could’ve waited to have a gay character in the upcoming Star Trek tv series. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853.md?page=3)