# Star Trek Beyond: The Sulu Controversy (minor spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 25, 2016, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853 "2016-07-25T14:15:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/81 "2016-07-26T20:05:30Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The really awkward part is that the character they picked just happens to be the one played (in his original version) by a gay man. If it’s kind of about Takei, maybe he should have had a veto. If it’s not about him, why is it Sulu? Why isn’t Bones or Scotty the gay one? Well, Bone canonically has an ex-wife, though he could be bi. I’m pretty sure Kirk is pansexual. Scotty - well, it’s up for grabs there. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/82 "2016-07-26T20:28:14Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. This is a reboot. The whole point is not to be completely locked in by the original parameters. Except it isn’t quite a reboot. The premise is that Romulan Eric Bana went back in time and changed some key events such as killing Papa Kirk which made James much more reckless in his youth. Being fatherless all his life could change someone’s personality. What could have changed someone from straight to gay? That falls into the “gay is a choice” fallacy. There is a better argument that Sulu was always gay and we were just never shown it. Sulu’s homelife is never shown. In _Generations_ his daughter makes an appearance but no mention of a spouse. Within the internal logic of the Star Trek universe it makes more sense that he is now revealed as having always been gay. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/83 "2016-07-26T20:54:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That was based on interviews with Stan Lee. Always take anything Stan Lee says with a grain of salt. Certainly don’t take anything he says which touts his early progressiveness, disproportionate contribution to a character, or generally makes him look good, seriously without corroboration. (Not saying he’s a liar…just that his memory is more malleable than most - and just as self-serving when it’s wrong.) He’s also claimed Pinky Pinkerton of the Howling Commandos was meant to be gay…a couple years before saying exactly the opposite. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/84 "2016-07-26T21:03:00Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > The really awkward part is that the character they picked just happens to be the one played (in his original version) by a gay man. If it’s kind of about Takei, maybe he should have had a veto. If it’s not about him, why is it Sulu? Why isn’t Bones or Scotty the gay one? Heh, maybe they are as well. After all, no law says the series has to have only _one_ gay major character. Have we seen Bones or Scotty give any details of their love lives in the rebooted series? I honestly don’t remember. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/85 "2016-07-26T21:18:32Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Heh, maybe they are as well. > > After all, no law says the series has to have only _one_ gay major character. > > Have we seen Bones or Scotty give any details of their love lives in the rebooted series? I honestly don’t remember. Sure. McCoy mentioned to Kirk that he was joining Starfleet because his ex- wife “took the whole damn planet” in the divorce and all he had left were his bones. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/86 "2016-07-26T21:18:50Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Well, Bone canonically has an ex-wife, though he could be bi. I’m pretty sure Kirk is pansexual. Scotty - well, it’s up for grabs there. Pansexual xenophilia, to cover all bases I assume. Had he the chance, Kirk would have done it with the Horta. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/87 "2016-07-26T21:24:02Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Sure. McCoy mentioned to Kirk that he was joining Starfleet because his ex- wife “took the whole damn planet” in the divorce and all he had left were his bones. I guess that rules him out as being gay, though he could still be bi - and explains why he wasn’t chosen as the ‘gay character’. But what about Scotty? Could he be gay in the reboot? Edit: sorry I missed **Maggie** ’s posts which cover the same points - my apologies! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/88 "2016-07-26T21:28:33Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Pansexual xenophilia, to cover all bases I assume. Had he the chance, Kirk would have done it with the Horta. “Dammit Kirk, you’re a manslut, not a brick-layer!” [/Bones] ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2016, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/89 "2016-07-26T23:56:41Z")
Go back to TOS and watch “Wolf in the Fold”, the drugged Sulu does come across as bi at least. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/90 "2016-07-27T00:00:42Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > Pansexual xenophilia, to cover all bases I assume. Had he the chance, Kirk would have done it with the Horta. Thats hot. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/91 "2016-07-27T00:08:37Z")
And hard as a … er… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/92 "2016-07-27T00:29:19Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Bruce Lee was Kato first and then his big roles came after. He had to go to Hong Kong to make those movies but Green Hornet was first. Then I stand corrected on that point. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/93 "2016-07-27T00:34:49Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Except it isn’t quite a reboot. The premise is that Romulan Eric Bana went back in time and changed some key events such as killing Papa Kirk which made James much more reckless in his youth. Being fatherless all his life could change someone’s personality. What could have changed someone from straight to gay? Assuming Sulu was born after the time change? A different sperm reaching the egg. Which would only require the most minute variance in the circumstances of Sulu’s conception between the two universes. Forget sexual orientation. The fact that everyone in the movie younger than Kirk retained their original gender is statistically pretty unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/94 "2016-07-27T02:28:26Z")
> [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > I’m pretty sure Kirk is pansexual. This was actually addressed by Roddenberry in his novelization of Star Trek: The Motion Picture, referencing the whole Kirk/Spock flash that was popular: > [@Admiral James T. Kirk](#): > > I was never aware of this _lovers_ rumor, although I have been told that Spock encountered it several times. Apparently he had always dismissed it with this characteristic lifting of his right eyebrow which usually connoted some combination of surprise, disbelief, and/or annoyance. As for myself, although I have no moral or other objections to physical love in any of its many Earthly, alien, and mixed forms, I have always found my best gratification in that creature _woman_. Also, I would dislike being thought of as so foolish that I would select a love partner who came into sexual heat only once every seven years. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/95 "2016-07-27T02:38:49Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And more that I’m forgetting, I’m sure. Nick Fury? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/96 "2016-07-27T03:53:49Z")
> [@standingwave](#): > > pansexual xenophilia, to cover all bases i assume. Had he the chance, kirk would have done it with the horta. no screw i ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/97 "2016-07-27T13:52:22Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > But what about Scotty? Could he be gay in the reboot? In “The lights of Zetar” (season 3, ep18), the guest star of the week is Scotty’s female human love interest. In “Wolf in the fold” (season 2, ep14), Scotty is shown apparently thoroughly enjoying the belly dancer show (even insisting on banging on the table, even after Kirk points out that the local custom is to flick a light/lamp on and off). ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/98 "2016-07-27T14:18:30Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > In “The lights of Zetar” (season 3, ep18), the guest star of the week is Scotty’s female human love interest. > > In “Wolf in the fold” (season 2, ep14), Scotty is shown apparently thoroughly enjoying the belly dancer show (even insisting on banging on the table, even after Kirk points out that the local custom is to flick a light/lamp on and off). Yes, but that’s from TOS. In the rebooted series, presumably, a different outcome is possible. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/99 "2016-07-28T03:24:11Z")
There’s a piece in the Economist that they don’t go far enough with this addition, since they don’t address any social issues despite the objectives of the main villain ([link](http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2016/07/sci-fi-films)). Having not seen the movie, I have to just leave that as a drive-by link drop, except to say how we’ve already seen with the first two movies how much of what made trek special has been cut in favour of standard action fare. It sounds like they’ve firmly decided on that direction with the third movie, and that’s why I haven’t bothered to see it yet. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853/100 "2016-07-28T05:52:20Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It’s a pet theory of mine, not wholly imaginative, that lots and lots of people, even without meaning to, get their cultural milestones and feelings from movies and TV, and in this day and age, I think it’s more and more important to show non-whites as being just as representative of being American. I’d say that’s even more important when the movie in question isn’t supposed to even be an all-American list of characters. And there definitely are times that a character looks like the holding post for the tokens: “ok guys, we need to have a half-Japanese African-American disabled lesbian, but the disability must not be visible…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-beyond-the-sulu-controversy-minor-spoilers/760853.md?page=6)