# Star Trek cloaking device question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 9, 2003, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414 "2003-01-09T01:52:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/21 "2003-01-09T13:51:26Z")
The question of the Treaty of Algeron is well established. Phil Farrand’s _Nitpicker’s Guide for Next Generation Trekkers, Volume II_ offers this: > [@](#): > > **Changed Premises** > Are there two Treaties of Algeron? Everyone in this episode [“The Pegasus”] refers to a sixty-year time period when the Federation could not develop cloaking technology. Then they also talk about the Treaty of Algeron. It sounds like the Treaty of Algeron was signed by the Federation and the Romulan Empire sixty years ago. But according to _The Star Trek Encyclopedia_, the Treaty of Algeron was signed between Earth – not the Federation – and the Romulan Star Empire in about 2160, more than two hundred years before the time frame of _NextGen_ and one year before the founding of the Federation. It is possible that Federation and Romulan negotiators developed an additional treaty sixty years ago, but wouldn’t it be less confusing to call that treaty something like “Algeron II”? ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/22 "2003-01-09T13:55:01Z")
(Fed\*s = Federation ships, captains, peoples. The really annoying thing is tht the Fed\*s have repeatedly shown the abilit to scan for cloaked vessels. They bloody well have shown at least three seperate ways - and at least one of these is logically unavoidable by known Romulan/Klingon technology. 1. ST 6: Watched for exhaust. Actually a relatively simple trick. no known counter. The ships must produce and dump power. In theory, a simple thermal scan could reveal the presence of a cloaked ship. 2. ST:TNG episode (Facing Romulans across the neutral zone, the Fed_s deployed a “net” across the neutral zone.) This will pick up any cloaled vessel coming acroos, but relies upon a high-speed relay operating from a number of Fed_s vessels. 3. Man, I know there was at least one more, but I cannot remember it. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/23 "2003-01-09T14:51:10Z")
Data fired a bunch of photon torpedoes to tech the tech tech thingy, and revealed a bunch of them. Also, _Enterprise_ is rife with continuity errors. The writers have lamely suggested that they’re heading off into an alternate timeline, which split off because Zefram Cochrane saw what the Galaxy-class Enterprise looked like and began building stuff that looked like that. That’s why Enterprise looks much more advanced than the Constitution class. Since there’s an alternate timeline, there aren’t necessarily continuity errors with the previous (set in the future) series. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/24 "2003-01-09T16:12:12Z")
The thing I have always found interesting is that the TOS episode which introduced the cloaking device, _Balance of Terror_, is pretty much an exact remake of a WWII movie about a British (I think) destroyer and a German U-Boat. I remember seeing the movie and thinking “Hey, that’s a _Star Trek_ episode!” That’s why you have such things as the ships essentially entering “silent running” mode and the like. Substitute torpedos and depth charges for plasma and photon torps and you pretty much have it. So, the Enterprise doesn’t have a cloaking device for the same reason that modern cruisers don’t submerge. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/25 "2003-01-09T16:30:05Z")
Well in fairness to the Star Trek writers on the whole multiple dates of the Treaty of Algeron thing; from the _Encyclopedia Britannica_: **Treaty of Paris** (1763): Treaty concluding the Franco-British phase of the Seven Years’ War. **Treaty of Paris** (1783): One of several agreements making up the Peace of Paris; provided for British recognition of American independence. **Treaties of Paris** (1814-1815): Treaties ending the Napoleonic Wars. **Treaty of Paris** (1856): Treaty ending the Crimean War. **Treaty of Paris** (1898): Treaty concluding the Spanish-American War. **Treaties of Paris** (1919-1920): Collection of several treaties that ended World War I, including the famous Treaty of Versailles. OK, now the word “treaty”, and especially “treaties”, doesn’t seem like a word anymore. Treaty, treaty, treaty. Treaties, treaties, treaties. _Duuude_. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/26 "2003-01-09T16:52:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > \*\*OK, now the word “treaty”, and especially “treaties”, doesn’t seem like a word anymore. Treaty, treaty, treaty. Treaties, treaties, treaties. _Duuude_. \*\* Dude, yer soundin’ really toasted, now. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’ve got the munchies. Why don’tcha go get yerself a bowl of Treaties? That’s like, half Wheaties and half Trix \. Hey, I just made that up. . .[/chronic] ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/27 "2003-01-09T16:58:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by levdrakon \* > **That just don’t track. Are we saying the Federation doesn’t know how to make a cloaking device, or _we_ just won’t make one? I can’t believe _we_ needed to borrow one from the Romulans for the Defiant. _italics supplied by kaylasdad99_** We? _WE??!!??_ Oh my. I’m in the presence of Trek-geek greatness, here. I think I need to go lie down. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/28 "2003-01-09T17:05:30Z")
Aha! **Kaylasdad99** is a Romulan spy! Now I have this picture of Spock uttering the line “What do you mean _we_, round ears?” at some point during the TOS episode “Balance of Terror”. Treaties! Breakfast of Champions! ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/29 "2003-01-09T18:22:43Z")
We got Treaties of Algeron up the Yin Yang here, Captain! ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/30 "2003-01-09T18:42:10Z")
There be Treaties of Algeron _here_! ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/31 "2003-01-09T19:01:30Z")
…God, and you know that every one of these posters are probably going to adopt, too… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/32 "2003-01-09T20:17:18Z")
I liked _Flowers For Algernon_ ---
**Author:** ![zoony](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e99b99/32.png) [@zoony](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoony)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/33 "2003-01-09T20:28:23Z")
“I have decided to test this station’s destructive powers on your home planet of Alderaan…” [sub]…oops, wrong thread[/sub] 😃 z ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414/34 "2003-01-09T20:52:46Z")
[http://dmrtc.net/~thompsde/tech.html](http://dmrtc.net/~thompsde/tech.html) [http://ssdoo.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/just\_for\_fun/startrek.html](http://ssdoo.gsfc.nasa.gov/education/just_for_fun/startrek.html) I have way too much time on my hands… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-cloaking-device-question/147414.md?page=1)