# Star Trek continuity hole? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 15, 2006, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673 "2006-07-15T23:53:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/21 "2006-07-16T12:35:46Z")
Riddle me this: Why is it that the 'Universal Translator" (a computer device) can make everyone sound like they are talking in normal, english, yet the Computer itself sounds like a computor? (especially true in TOS days). Also, IIRC, Kirk had lots of trouble with the UT and the Gorn… and I don’'t believe the Gorn ever understood him. Also, IIRC, Troi had to help Picard ‘learn’ a key phrase in some alien dialect 'because they would notice the UT"… therefore, while we dont realize it’s in play, they do. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/22 "2006-07-16T14:13:14Z")
My take is that they want the computer to sound like a computer - so that things the computer says are recognizably from the computer, or for uncanny valley type reasons - people might find the computer a little too creepy if it sounded more human. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/23 "2006-07-16T15:26:40Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Riddle me this: > Also, IIRC, Kirk had lots of trouble with the UT and the Gorn… and I don’'t believe the Gorn ever understood him. How do you mean? With the translators they were given? The Gorn was listening to him; Kirk thaought it was some kind of record keeping device. :rolleyes: This guy commands a _Starship?_ ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/24 "2006-07-16T16:05:55Z")
> [@alphaboi867](#): > > If you really want to complain about scifi shows’ language policies try the Stargates. Every culture they encounter speaks English, yet writes in an alien script. It’s a concession for television. Stargate’s producers have admitted that they tend to ignore language problems in order to avoid bogging down the show with endless amounts of translation. Still, I kinda wish they’d introduce something akin to the Universal Translator. If they asked me to design the translator, I’d make Stargate’s translators look like little headsets (like call center people use) but, unlike Trek’s UT, the alien species’ lips would not look like they’re speaking English. The actors playing the aliens would speak a line from one of Shakespear’s plays, or a verse from the Bible, or a sentence from a Harry Potter book, or something totally random like that, and the “translated” dialogue would be dubbed over this. As for Trek, I’d like to have seen an episode where the UT crapped out, and the crew members suddenly couldn’t understand each other. Spock would be speaking in Vulcan, Sulu in Japanese, Uhura in Swahili, Checkov in Russian, and only Kirk and McCoy (both speaking English) could talk to each other. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/25 "2006-07-16T16:15:19Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for Trek, I’d like to have seen an episode where the UT crapped out, and the crew members suddenly couldn’t understand each other. Spock would be speaking in Vulcan, Sulu in Japanese, Uhura in Swahili, Checkov in Russian, and only Kirk and McCoy (both speaking English) could talk to each other. That wouldn’t have worked. Star Fleet Academy will do all training in Earth Basic (English). Just because Uhura, Chekov, etc. speak languages other than Basic doesn’t mean they don’t speak Basic fluently. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/26 "2006-07-16T16:22:22Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for Trek, I’d like to have seen an episode where the UT crapped out, and the crew members suddenly couldn’t understand each other. Spock would be speaking in Vulcan, Sulu in Japanese, Uhura in Swahili, Checkov in Russian, and only Kirk and McCoy (both speaking English) could talk to each other. I’m pretty sure that McCoy would actually be speaking Southern, which could be just as formidable a barrier to communication depending on which part of Georgia he’s from. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/27 "2006-07-16T17:07:20Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > That wouldn’t have worked. Star Fleet Academy will do all training in Earth Basic (English). Just because Uhura, Chekov, etc. speak languages other than Basic doesn’t mean they don’t speak Basic fluently. Earth Basic? Where did you get that idea? English can be assumed to be the lingua franca of \*Starfleet \*based on the hull markings of all its ships we’ve seen but English has never been established as the primary language of Earth or the Federation. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/28 "2006-07-16T17:14:19Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Tell me about it! That is such feldercarb! If they’d just think about it for a micron or two they’d realize it makes no sense. Grok those marklars! ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/29 "2006-07-16T18:20:46Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > Earth Basic? Where did you get that idea? English can be assumed to be the lingua franca of \*Starfleet \*based on the hull markings of all its ships we’ve seen but English has never been established as the primary language of Earth or the Federation. If it is the primary language of Star Fleet, then it is the primary language of the Federation. Every Federation official we have ever seen speaks English, as do all of the alien life-forms that don’t use the UT. Occam’s Razor. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/30 "2006-07-16T20:16:37Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for Trek, I’d like to have seen an episode where the UT crapped out, and the crew members suddenly couldn’t understand each other. Spock would be speaking in Vulcan, Sulu in Japanese, Uhura in Swahili, Checkov in Russian, and only Kirk and McCoy (both speaking English) could talk to each other. You forget a couple of things: Spock’s mother was human, specifically from the part of Earth once known as the United States. I’m sure Sarek did not forbid Amanda from speaking her native language nor forbid her to teach it to Spock. And Sulu grew up in San Francisco (according to The Voyage Home) so he would be fluent in English as well as Japanese. And as a communications officer, I’m sure Uhura has to be fluent in many languages (in case the UT craps out), so once again, mark her off as an English speaker. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/31 "2006-07-16T20:24:07Z")
Although Chekov would _pretend_ he could only speak Russian. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/32 "2006-07-16T20:28:17Z")
Not to mention, as Vucan’s ambassador to the Federation (which is how he and Amanda first met, I believe), Sarek would be himself be fluent in English out of necessity. So it would be very surprising if Spock was not fluent in English by the age of three. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/33 "2006-07-17T01:51:15Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > As for Trek, I’d like to have seen an episode where the UT crapped out, and the crew members suddenly couldn’t understand each other. Spock would be speaking in Vulcan, Sulu in Japanese, Uhura in Swahili, Checkov in Russian, and only Kirk and McCoy (both speaking English) could talk to each other. You forgot Scotty, also a native English speaker. I’m also pretty sure English is Sulu’s first language; he was born in San Francisco, after all. And Chekov isn’t using a UT, which is why his accent is so thick, and I can’t believe the polymath Mr. Spock and the communications specialist Lt. Uhura don’t both speak English. That said, I recall a Trek short story in which the crew is called back suddenly from shore leave, prompting Kevin Riley to curse so foully on the bridge that most of the officers are offended – but Spock, Uhura, and Chekov are all interested and listen closely, because they all learned English in classrooms and thus were never taught profanity. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/34 "2006-07-17T01:52:50Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > Not to mention, as Vucan’s ambassador to the Federation (which is how he and Amanda first met, I believe), Sarek would be himself be fluent in English out of necessity. So it would be very surprising if Spock was not fluent in English by the age of three. And, continuing the nerdfest, according to Diane Duane’s Trek novels, Amanda Grayson was a linguist who worked on the Universal Translator in her youth; she was certainly bilingual. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/35 "2006-07-17T01:56:15Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > And as a communications officer, I’m sure Uhura has to be fluent in many languages (in case the UT craps out), so once again, mark her off as an English speaker. Which reminds me of something that really vexed me about _The Undiscovered Country._ I simply did not believe that neither Spock nor Uhura spoke Klingon. On the other hand, I recall an episode in which something delicate has to be done to the communications system, and Spock tells Uhura that no one on the ship – including both him and Scott – are as skilled in that area as she is, so maybe communications chief involves more electronics skill than linguistics talent. (I still don’t believe neither of them spoke Klingon, though.) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/36 "2006-07-17T02:18:55Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > (I still don’t believe neither of them spoke Klingon, though.) Perhaps it was the particular dialect in question, Skald. I can’t BELIEVE that I… ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/37 "2006-07-17T05:09:31Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > Which reminds me of something that really vexed me about _The Undiscovered Country._ I simply did not believe that neither Spock nor Uhura spoke Klingon… Nichelle Nichols had a problem with that and she tries, _without succes_, to get the director to change it. She did refuse to say some the more racist (specist?) lines she was given. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/38 "2006-07-17T10:26:11Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > Grok those marklars! I grok that you do not grok “grok”. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/39 "2006-07-17T10:39:47Z")
> [@Skald the Rhymer](#): > > And, continuing the nerdfest, according to Diane Duane’s Trek novels, Amanda Grayson was a linguist who worked on the Universal Translator in her youth; she was certainly bilingual. Not completely, though. She could only pronounce her given Vulcan name “after a fashion”. [sub]glavin![/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673/40 "2006-07-17T10:48:31Z")
[hijack]I find the ST universal translator oddity loads less annoying than the thing in Star Wars, where everyone can understand each other’s language; Han talks to Chewie in English, but understands the response in Wookie; same thing when he talks to ugly-CGI-Jabba; same thing when he talks to Greedo; same thing when Threepio talks to Artoo; same thing… well… you get the idea. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-continuity-hole/364673.md?page=3)