# Star Trek Discovery Episode 13 (Week of 1/28/18) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2018, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695 "2018-01-29T01:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/21 "2018-01-30T11:48:38Z")
Something else I’ve noticed–the Empire is at war with the Vulcans in the _Discovery_ Mirrorverse–but in _TOS_, Spock is an officer on the Mirrorverse Enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Shine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr_shine/32/464_2.png) [@Mr\_Shine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Shine)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/22 "2018-01-30T12:20:26Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Something else I’ve noticed–the Empire is at war with the Vulcans in the _Discovery_ Mirrorverse–but in _TOS_, Spock is an officer on the Mirrorverse Enterprise. I assumed that MirrorSarek’s group are rebels. MirrorSpock is a loyalist. I’ve no idea how much this makes sense with the plot of “Mirror, Mirror” as I haven’t seen that episode for a long long time. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/23 "2018-01-30T12:25:16Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I haven’t seen that episode for a long long time. I haven’t either, but a few months ago I was flipping through channels and that episode was on and at the scene where Beardy Spock made a crewman hand over his personal agonizer for punishment (apparently, the technology became more portable in the timeframe between Disco and TNG, and everyone has to carry around their own torture device.) ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/24 "2018-01-30T12:27:48Z")
The Empire isn’t at war with the Vulcans. It hasn’t been at war with the Vulcans for over 100 years. Vulcan is still a conquered world, and presumably most Vulcans keep their heads down, and quite a few are probably Vichy Vulcans. What the Empire is at war with is a rebellion, which includes members of at least some of the conquered species - we saw Vulcans, Klingons, Andorians and Tellurides (also I saw someone I thought looked like a Nausicaan, but that might have just been a funky Telluride makeup). It actually ends up being a bit of clever mirroring with the relationship between Spock and Sarek in the Prime Universe. Prime Spock and Sarek were on the outs (up to Journey to Babel) because Spock chose to join Starfleet, instead of the Vulcan Science Council. Here, Spock chose to be (likely remain\*) a collaborator - at least until Prime Kirk convinced him the Empire was illogical - while Sarek became a rebel. - Remember that Spock has a human mother. While it’s possible that Amanda was sympathetic to the Vulcan plight, it’s more likely that Sarek was a collaborator (or possibly Amanda raped him, but again, that’s the less likely possibility), whose son remained initially loyal to his mother’s people when his father ran off with the rebels. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/25 "2018-01-30T13:19:17Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Something else I’ve noticed–the Empire is at war with the Vulcans in the _Discovery_ Mirrorverse–but in _TOS_, Spock is an officer on the Mirrorverse Enterprise. Its fairly clear now that , despite the initial advertisments + the word ‘multi-verse’ - we are no longer in TOS Prime’s universe and/or timeline. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/26 "2018-01-30T14:06:25Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Its fairly clear now that , despite the initial advertisments + the word ‘multi-verse’ - we are no longer in TOS Prime’s universe and/or timeline. If we ever were. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/27 "2018-01-30T15:52:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If we ever were. According to - [How Picard Fits Into the Star Trek Timeline | TIME](http://time.com/4952491/star-trek-discovery-timeline/) > [@](#): > > But how does Discovery fit into the larger Star Trek timeline? The CBS series will serve as a prequel to the original Star Trek, set 10 years before the adventures of Kirk and Spock. The writers have said that Discovery will maintain continuity with the old series, and events from Discovery will explain plot points in the original Trek. > > For Trek nerds out there, this means Discovery takes place in the “prime” timeline, which is where each of the television series and the original films live. In 2009, J.J. Abrams rebooted the series with the film Star Trek, creating a new timeline for the already confusing Trek universe. In the film, a bad guy travels back in time and destroys the USS Kelvin, killing Captain Kirk’s father, George Kirk, in the process. All three of J.J. Abrams’ movies take place in this alternate timeline called the “Kelvin Timeline,” after the annihilated ship. I suppose they could still do a complete ‘reset button’ and undo everything - which would really piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/28 "2018-01-30T22:02:39Z")
Oh noes! All the life in all the multiverse will die if we don’t technobabble the phlebotinum! Although, on the other hand, I suppose it’s sort of fitting that an empty threat is met with an empty resolution. ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/29 "2018-01-30T22:51:37Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#): > > Oh noes! All the life in all the multiverse will die if we don’t technobabble the phlebotinum! > > Although, on the other hand, I suppose it’s sort of fitting that an empty threat is met with an empty resolution. Not an unjust criticism, but you did see the words _Star Trek_ in the name of the show, right? I mean… I don’t know what you were expecting. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/30 "2018-01-30T23:15:17Z")
Watching this episode, I saw the black woman who was allowed to live as a message (then zapped with the effect from the Darkest Timeline Paintball episode of _Community_) then later in the same episode noticed _hey_, there she is on the bridge of the “good” Discovery. Then I realized that she has probably been there the whole season. I remember nothing about her, don’t know her name. I don’t know anything about anyone else on the bridge–Black Guy, Woman With Shaved Head And Metal Thing, Miss Scorpius…this is not a good sign. A full season of the show, and the bridge characters aren’t even filled out enough to be called a thumbnail sketch. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/31 "2018-01-31T00:20:34Z")
The bulk of the bridge crew isn’t fleshed out, because they’re not the core cast. Saying the bridge crew being undeveloped is a bad sign is like saying science division being barely seen was a bad sign in TNG. It’s silly. Burnham, Tilly, Stametz, Culber, Saru, TylerVoq, and Lorca are already about the same size as the core cast on any of the other series. Of course with Culber and Lorca dead (and assuming they don’t engage in time shenanigans to bring Culber back), there’s room for some new ones. Emperor Phillipa is certainly almost going to be promoted to core, I’d say. And I’m still expecting those time shenanigans. (The bulk of the bridge crew wasn’t fleshed out in TOS, TNG, or DS9, either, but the minor ones were more visually generic, and more of the core were bridge officers, so it wasn’t as obvious. Discovery and the current film series go with more visually striking space fillers, and that’s a good thing.) ---
**Author:** ![WotNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e19b73/32.png) [@WotNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WotNot)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/32 "2018-01-31T00:36:31Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Watching this episode, I saw the black woman who was allowed to live as a message (then zapped with the effect from the Darkest Timeline Paintball episode of _Community_) then later in the same episode noticed _hey_, there she is on the bridge of the “good” Discovery. Then I realized that she has probably been there the whole season. I remember nothing about her, don’t know her name. I don’t know anything about anyone else on the bridge–Black Guy, Woman With Shaved Head And Metal Thing, Miss Scorpius…this is not a good sign. A full season of the show, and the bridge characters aren’t even filled out enough to be called a thumbnail sketch. Why should they be, necessarily? Previous series of Trek have crammed most of their main characters onto the bridge, but that doesn’t mean that everyone on the bridge always needs to be a main character. How much did we ever learn about Commander Kyle? Or Uhura for that matter? 79 episodes, and we don’t get much more than “likes to sing in her spare time”. Not even a first name. ---
**Author:** ![Biffster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biffster/32/339_2.png) [@Biffster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/33 "2018-01-31T00:41:43Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > The bulk of the bridge crew isn’t fleshed out, because they’re not the core cast. > > Saying the bridge crew being undeveloped is a bad sign is like saying science division being barely seen was a bad sign in TNG. It’s silly. Burnham, Tilly, Stametz, Culber, Saru, TylerVoq, and Lorca are already about the same size as the core cast on any of the other series. Of course with Culber and Lorca dead (and assuming they don’t engage in time shenanigans to bring Culber back), there’s room for some new ones. Emperor Phillipa is certainly almost going to be promoted to core, I’d say. And I’m still expecting those time shenanigans. > > (The bulk of the bridge crew wasn’t fleshed out in TOS, TNG, or DS9, either, but the minor ones were more visually generic, and more of the core were bridge officers, so it wasn’t as obvious. Discovery and the current film series go with more visually striking space fillers, and that’s a good thing.) Odd then that they managed to find the time to flesh out the minor characters on the Orville, given that they’ve both been running more or less concurrently. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/34 "2018-01-31T01:00:07Z")
Giving that dude with the big head some awkward chatter over a couple episodes and Yaphet a yen for solids doesn’t count as ‘fleshing out the minor characters’. Hell, even the core characters on The Orville are barely 3 dimensional. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/35 "2018-01-31T01:43:08Z")
> [@Declan](#): > > Damm, that speech by Saru > > I was just about to start screaming so say we all, after it was over. That scene alone made the episode good as far as I was concerned. The show is more and more real Trek as the season goes on. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/36 "2018-01-31T03:25:56Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Watching this episode, I saw the black woman who was allowed to live as a message (then zapped with the effect from the Darkest Timeline Paintball episode of _Community_) then later in the same episode noticed _hey_, there she is on the bridge of the “good” Discovery. Then I realized that she has probably been there the whole season. I remember nothing about her, don’t know her name. I don’t know anything about anyone else on the bridge–Black Guy, Woman With Shaved Head And Metal Thing, Miss Scorpius…this is not a good sign. A full season of the show, and the bridge characters aren’t even filled out enough to be called a thumbnail sketch. The black lady is Owesekum, and the woman with the metal thingy on her temple is Detmer. Not sure about the other one. The Asian fellow is Reese (?). ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/37 "2018-01-31T05:45:17Z")
Far as i can tell there are now no white straight male characters (i dont count aliens, Vulcans are POCs!!) Not even recurring characters or nameless recurring bridge characters! No real point.Just trivia. For main cast, TOS had 3, TNG had 3, DS9 had 1, Voyager had 1. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/38 "2018-01-31T05:47:43Z")
> [@Mr\_Shine](#): > > I assumed that MirrorSarek’s group are rebels. MirrorSpock is a loyalist. I’ve no idea how much this makes sense with the plot of “Mirror, Mirror” as I haven’t seen that episode for a long long time. Mirror Spock is also half-human. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/39 "2018-01-31T06:00:38Z")
> [@WotNot](#): > > Not an unjust criticism, but you did see the words _Star Trek_ in the name of the show, right? > > I mean… I don’t know what you were expecting. I never understood how ‘of course it’s shit, it always was shit’ is supposed to be a defense. I mean, it’s not like the writers were shackled to shitty writing—‘yeah, well, at first, we wanted to do this kick-ass plot with character advancement, realistic stakes, and a plausible resolution, but then we remembered, this is Star Trek, so we had to have them fire their photon torpedoes at the thingy’. Seriously, a day after seeing the episode, I don’t think I could coherently formulate what the problem was, nor how it got resolved—I mean, the other Stammets somehow harnessed the pandimensional shrooms to make kinda a mini-sun, because apparently that releases lots of energy, but also corrupts the shroom (for reasons, I’m sure), which is fixed by firing photon torpedoes at it. Besides, when Trek was good, the technobabble resolutions really didn’t apply to the core conflict—they were effectively merely background, more part of the scenery than part of the action. Here, however, little else happened—that wasn’t overshadowed by the ridiculously overblown threat of all the life in the multiverse being exterminated, because apparently the shroom is necessary to it, again for reasons I’m sure. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2018, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695/40 "2018-01-31T11:34:28Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > The black lady is Owesekum, and the woman with the metal thingy on her temple is Detmer. Not sure about the other one. > The Asian fellow is Reese (?). Googling, I see that Miss [Scorpius](http://farscape.wikia.com/wiki/Scorpius) is [Airiam.](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Airiam) Black Guy is actually [Random Communications Officer Man](http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/R.A._Bryce). (Way to hang a lampshade on it, writers!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-discovery-episode-13-week-of-1-28-18/807695.md?page=3)