# Star Trek: Do "star dates" have any structure or are they just a number the writers picked out of a hat? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** star-trek-paramount\ **Created:** [June 8, 2025, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327 "2025-06-08T13:17:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Kzbre5m](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@Kzbre5m](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kzbre5m)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/41 "2025-06-09T20:08:09Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Aaaiiiieeee !!! Logic Loops !!! _Your logic was impeccable, Captain. We are in grave danger._ ( **Robot\_Arm** probably has the better response quote.) ---
**Author:** ![Lancia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lancia/32/17174_2.png) [@Lancia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lancia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/42 "2025-06-09T20:17:42Z")
[Our own Perfect Master addressed this very topic some 34 years ago.](https://www.straightdope.com/21341993/in-star-trek-what-exactly-are-star-dates) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/43 "2025-06-09T22:40:27Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > It pretty much was the ONLY way to envision a cohesive spacefaring society with far flung outposts and ships without diverging into total fantasy (or anarchy). Stargate uses wormholes but in a lot of ways they are even more problematic. [and you may have to send a ship to where you want the thing to connect and without FTL drive that too will take a long time] I didn’t mean that going faster than light was the advance - Lost in Space must have involved it, since they hopped around different stars in less than thousands of years. I meant realizing that you couldn’t go faster than light by pressing on the accelerator pedal harder. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/44 "2025-06-09T22:46:34Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Sure, first time on TV maybe. But Heinlein, for example, was dealing with the issue at least as early as Starman Jones, where the main character explains (unnecessarily, if I remember correctly) how the ship uses known folds in space to punch through massive distances as they hit light speed. There was plenty of ideas for a writer. And Asimov used hyperspace. Decent sf writers had this figured out decades before Star Trek. In an early essay Arthur C. Clarke complained about how TV and lots of writers didn’t quite get the distance between stars, and basically acted, use an Earthly analogy, that Australia was a few miles off of Staten Island. I’ve seen books in a contest I judge that make the same mistake. As far as TV screwing it up, the Flash Gordon series from about 1950 (and filmed in Berlin) never had a clue. ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/45 "2025-06-10T12:39:31Z")
[Obligatory link to TV Tropes on distances](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/SciFiWritersHaveNoSenseOfScale/LiveActionTV) This page has my favorite line, although it is from Doctor Who, not Star Trek. > “The Mysterious Planet”: Earth is hidden by moving its entire solar system several million miles, the celestial equivalent of hiding from your date in an empty movie theatre by leaning an inch to the left. For scale, Mercury never comes within twenty-eight million miles of our Sun, despite being its closest planet. This was later changed to “two light-years”. While slightly more plausible than several million miles, this is still only less than half the distance to Alpha Centauri, our nearest neighbouring star. It would be equivalent to hiding from your date in an otherwise empty cinema by moving one seat to the left. Thanks for the discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/46 "2025-06-10T15:12:17Z")
Star Trek is swamped with issues of not understanding scale. Like (one example out of many) Sisko and Son piloting a solar sail craft from Bajor to Cardassia in a few days. When the two planets are around 5 light-years apart. (At solar sail speeds, should have taken thousands of years.) Not to mention that the sail was about 99 (or 99.9) percent smaller than it should have been. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/47 "2025-06-10T18:28:12Z")
The distance between stars, like the speed of a given warp, is dependent on the plot. In _Balance of Terror_ Romulus was so far away that it took hours for Kirk’s messages to get to Star Fleet, yet it was settled from Vulcan with what I assume to be under light speed craft. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/48 "2025-06-10T18:58:58Z")
To be fair, it was never said in _ **BoT** _ that Romulus was “settled” by Vulcan. On screen, Spock said the Romulans were likely an “offshoot” of the Vulcan race. In Blish’s adaptation of the original script, Spock states that most of the inhabitants in that part of space apparently came from the “same stock.” Colonization was not mentioned. But yeah, it was amazing how the Romulans managed to get so far from their system on “simple impulse power.” ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/49 "2025-06-10T19:37:15Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Star Trek is swamped with issues of not understanding scale. “There’s nothing for light years in any direction except light years.” People just have no grasp of the immensity of the universe. If you reduced the earth the the size of a green pea, so that your starship would be invisible to the eye, the nearest star would be 11800 actual miles away. With absolutely nothing in between. Vulcan would be 48000 miles. For comparison, the moon would be 7 inches away. So when stories say “we’ve lost warp drive”, they aren’t going ANYWHERE. “Oh look, there’s a uninhabited planet close enough for impulse drive”. That means it is a few inches away in our scale. What are the odds, Mr Spock? People can handwave stellar navigation as tough - you have to allow for the distance the other star has moved in the years since its light left - but basically, with a warp-driven starship, “navigation” consists of pointing the ship at the star and going in a straight line. You can adjust for the error when you get closer. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2025, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/50 "2025-06-10T19:39:22Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > People just have no grasp of the immensity of the universe. And here I thought it was a long way to the Chemist. (if you know, you know) ---
**Author:** ![vislor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vislor/32/5933_2.png) [@vislor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vislor)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/51 "2025-06-11T13:56:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > And here I thought it was a long way to the Chemist. (if you know, you know) BWAHAHAHAHA! I was about to post the first part! Well done! Even though we are talking about star dates, and star trek technology, it annoys me when writers pick drama over realism when there could be drama within the realism. I get that they don’t want to show real time hacking. A simple “hours later” or montage would suffice. Thanks for the discussion! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/52 "2025-06-11T18:53:50Z")
> [@vislor](#): > > Even though we are talking about star dates, and star trek technology, it annoys me when writers pick drama over realism when there could be drama within the realism. I get that they don’t want to show real time hacking. A simple “hours later” or montage would suffice. Strongly agree. One big reason that _The Doomsday Machine_ is one of my favorite episodes is that Spinrad managed to provide a solution which did not use any technobabble or sudden amazing inventions. That’s good writing. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/53 "2025-06-11T19:16:48Z")
In reality, would a star date based on anything have any meaning? Time, and therefore dates, would be relative to the individuals keeping track. Ships traveling any distance on impulse power would experience time dilation. The calendar/time on the ship would be accurate within itself, but it would be inaccurate to those in not traveling or traveling at different speeds. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/54 "2025-06-11T19:19:22Z")
In a fictional setting where the author/creator cared to adhere to the laws of physics, as we know them, sure. But, to paraphrase Harrison Ford: “this ain’t that kind of TV show, kid.” Star Trek has never been “hard” science-fiction, of course, even if they sometimes try to wrap a bit of explanation around certain things. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/55 "2025-06-11T19:31:06Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Star Trek has never been “hard” science-fiction, of course, even if they sometimes try to wrap a bit of explanation around certain things. True. I read somewhere that, on set, they used the term “technobabble” to describe the made up “facts” about how things worked. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/56 "2025-06-11T19:33:18Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > The calendar/time on the ship would be accurate within itself, but it would be inaccurate to those in not traveling or traveling at different speeds. It is even worse than that; every time the ship ‘warps’ faster than light is it literally moving backwards in time because it will end up at its destination outside of the light cone of its originating reference frame. And when it returns to that spacial reference frame by ‘warping’ back it will have started its journey before it left. So not only are ‘stardates’ meaningless absent of some kind of universal frame of reference against which all motion though spacetime is measured, there is literally no consistent causality in the _Star Trek_ universe. Which neatly resolves all issues with the inconsistencies in alliances, technologies, significant events, visual stylings, uniforms, and the reason Klingons keep completely changing in appearance every time a new franchise master comes on board and gets a bug to make their own mark. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/57 "2025-06-11T19:35:22Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > True. I read somewhere that, on set, they used the term “technobabble” to describe the made up “facts” about how things worked. The writers would try a bit. One reason why transporters cannot work in the real world is due to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. So, the show writers occasionally have it mentioned that the transporters use a Heisenberg Compensator. No one knows what that is or how it works. It is technobabble. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/58 "2025-06-11T19:40:25Z")
Although… The distances in this episode don’t work _at all._ As long as you don’t worry about such things, it’s great. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/59 "2025-06-11T22:09:01Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > It is even worse than that; every time the ship ‘warps’ faster than light is it literally moving backwards in time because it will end up at its destination outside of the light cone of its originating reference frame. Not to mention subspace radio, which allows people many light years apart to talk with no delay. But no one has ever asked for race results, not even once. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2025, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327/60 "2025-06-11T22:19:10Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Not to mention subspace radio, which allows people many light years apart to talk with no delay. Unless the plot of an episode requires the Enterprise to _not_ be able to get an immediate message back to Starfleet. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-do-star-dates-have-any-structure-or-are-they-just-a-number-the-writers-picked-out-of-a-hat/1019327.md?page=4)