# Star Trek Enterprise 3x18 Azati Prime (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 3, 2004, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299 "2004-03-03T14:09:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/81 "2004-03-05T16:14:05Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Subspace communications could’ve circumvented the whole problem alltogether. So, you’re saying that a subspace “radio” can travel through thousands of miles of solid rock (the moon that the lookout station was situated on) and come out the other side completely intact? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/82 "2004-03-05T16:40:47Z")
I didn’t get a chance to study subspace field theory, but since the Xindi reported that Moon Base Alpha had been out of contact for two hours it does appear that they don’t have subspace radio. They have a transport vortex that can take a Super Happy Fun Ball. They can _make_ a SHFB. They have warp. But no subspace radio? So the outpost can only report when it’s too late and Degra can never contact the Council while working on the SHFB since he would be much too far away. Maybe there were budget cuts and the outpost didn’t rate a subspace radio. It’s not on their BEL (Basic Equipment List). That would be considered a … a luxury. They could get a pizza oven though. Just take the standard BEL8674/J67-MX/2 equipment form and where it says “phaser-cutting phaser” cross that out and write in “pizza oven”. NB: Cute picture of Porthos on [www.startrek.com](http://www.startrek.com) under Series::Enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/83 "2004-03-05T18:22:45Z")
It would take a lot for me to get on the bandwagon of destroying an entire species because they are _supposed_ to destroy my homeworld in the future. My entire race has never even encountered them and I’m supposed to wipe them off the face of the galaxy. So what could She have shown them that would be so convincing? Pictures and videos and recordings wouldn’t have done it for me. The only thing I can think of is that She took the leading members of the council to an alternate timeline in which the humans actually _did_ attack to destroy the Xindi. Perhaps She took them to the Mirror Universe and snuck them into military briefing sessions and actual battles. What would you need to convince you to commit genocide? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/84 "2004-03-05T18:37:23Z")
Another possibility is that the entire Xindi Council is actual _from_ an alternate timeline where the humans were going to invade and commit genocide. “She” then took them to “our” timeline to work on this plan. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/85 "2004-03-05T18:47:14Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > NB: Cute picture of Porthos on [www.startrek.com](http://www.startrek.com) under Series::Enterprise. It must’ve expired. When I go to the “Series & Movies”-\>“Star Trek: Enterprise” main page, all I see is Jolene Blalock out of her Vulcan makeup, an ad for “North Star”, pictures of Count Bakula and Dominic Keating, and a primate Xindi. And some stunt coordinator guy named Vince. There are no dogs on that page, beagle or otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/86 "2004-03-05T18:52:13Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > It must’ve expired. I’m so sorry. I Hate it when I make a suggestion that goes awry. The picture was above the [STARTREK.COM](http://STARTREK.COM) tab on the upper left, which I should have realized cycles. The picture was a full side shot of Porthos with his head drooped down over the [STARTREK.COM](http://STARTREK.COM) tab. I nice picture and a nice 3D effect. I hope it cycles in again. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![NE\_Texan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e99b99/32.png) [@NE\_Texan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NE_Texan)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/87 "2004-03-05T19:05:32Z")
Here’s an odd thought. In the timeline they are in, the humans DO attack and destroy a major Xindi world. The humans involved are the homeless remnants of the human race, since the Xindi succeeded in destroying Earth. This circular logic is made possible by (or began by) _She_ who takes the future knowledge (with some level of proof) back to the Xindi. Without _Her_ meddling, perhaps neither Xindi or Humans would attack each other, leaving them strong and working together to protect against the sphere builders. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/88 "2004-03-05T19:09:42Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > So, you’re saying that a subspace “radio” can travel through thousands of miles of solid rock (the moon that the lookout station was situated on) and come out the other side completely intact? **tra** , apparantly, the only “barrier” to subspace comunications is distance. It exists outside of relatavistic space (even though it still uses electromagnetic signals). The fact that relay stations are used to boost signals suggests that distance weakens the signal, although nothing like the inverse square law has ever been applied (canonically) to subspace communications. Also, remember what TOS taught us. Transporters, replication, communicators, and warp drive are all part of the same basic theory/technology. (_A Piece of the Action_) And, transporters work through miles of planetary rock (_All Our Yesterdays_). ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2004, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/89 "2004-03-05T20:47:13Z")
> [@Aesiron](#): > > \*\*Cervaise \*\* liked the episode, \*\*viva \*\* used poor grammar, \*\*Tars \*\* hasn’t mentioned Hoshi, and \*\*tracer \*\* hasn’t commented about intake manifolds. I’ve evidently stepped through the looking glass. > > It’s nice to see some constants though… this \*\*cplant \*\* can’t code much better than mine and this \*\*NCB \*\* is just as spastic as the other. > > I wonder what this universe’s me is like. uh…Hoshi? (stupid work getting in my way) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/90 "2004-03-06T00:57:56Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > It would take a lot for me to get on the bandwagon of destroying an entire species because they are _supposed_ to destroy my homeworld in the future. But then, you ain’t a bug. The Klingons would buy it, “for the Preservation of the Klingon Race!” I think the alternate time line is an unnecessary complication. If I may digress, I think this arc would be better with Klingons, Romulans and the Romulan War. Of course, there would have to be a reason the crew didn’t talk about the ears… ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/91 "2004-03-06T01:05:41Z")
Maybe the “extinct” bird Xindi will turn out to be the Romulans. How would you like THOSE apples??? ---
**Author:** ![Corner\_Case](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/corner_case/32/234_2.png) [@Corner\_Case](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corner_Case)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/92 "2004-03-06T01:12:18Z")
If the Xindi were composed of _only_ Really hostile races (like the Reptilians and the Insectoids) I would suspend belief and think they could be spurred to genocide over trivial evidence. Just goes to show how jaded I am. 🙂 But the Xindi have the Sloths and Primates who are more warm and cuddly, uh, I mean, concerned. We haven’t really experienced the Aquatics personalities. The “complication” of an alternate timeline is just an attempt to reconcile the problems already imposed by Bergama’s plotlines (or lack thereof). If the Xindi would just work together they would know about the Insectoid Kid’s Mommy Juice[sup]tm[/sup] and just dump a bunch on old Quixote, uh, Quantum, uh, Archer, and he would be the most helpful of prisoners. Then they could all make up a batch for Earth and have a new colony! As for the extinct bird-Xindi being Romulans … I’d buy THAT for a dollar! ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/93 "2004-03-06T01:43:18Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > We haven’t really experienced the Aquatics personalities. They’re floodthirsty. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/94 "2004-03-06T02:16:45Z")
> [@Corner Case](#): > > onalities. > > The “complication” of an alternate timeline is just an attempt to reconcile the problems already imposed by Bergama’s plotlines (or lack thereof). Sure, Pal. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/95 "2004-03-06T04:35:32Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > If I may digress, I think this arc would be better with Klingons, Romulans and the Romulan War. Of course, there would have to be a reason the crew didn’t talk about the ears… Don’t forget, during the 22nd century Earth-Romulan war, no human ever got to see a Romulan. All communications with the Romulans was audio-only, and battles were fought with “primitive atomic weapons” that allowed no prisoners to be taken. (Of course, in that case, they’ll need to explain the existence of Phase Cannons and Photonic Torpedoes.) ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/96 "2004-03-06T04:39:41Z")
[Rock Paper Scissors Spock Lizard!](http://www.samkass.com/theories/RPSSL.html) I say it again: Rock Paper Scissors Spock Lizard!!! I just felt like repeating that. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/97 "2004-03-06T04:59:06Z")
And cloaks, **tracer**. The existence of so many masking technologies in the 22nd Century \*\*\*really \*\* \* annoys me. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/98 "2004-03-06T05:59:35Z")
Viva _so_ needs a whupp’n [😛](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/newreply.php) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 6:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/99 "2004-03-06T06:32:24Z")
Oh yeah! My contest! Go back to page 1 and see my little clue. First correct response gets crushed up peanut brittle. Or a gift of random choice. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2004, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299/100 "2004-03-06T15:12:57Z")
> [@tracer](#): > > no human ever got to see a Romulan. That’s what I meant by “explain the ears”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-enterprise-3x18-azati-prime-spoilers/232299.md?page=6)