# "Star Trek" fans: Loose threads/unanswered questions? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 21, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268 "2010-03-21T21:09:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![THespos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@THespos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/THespos)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/101 "2010-03-25T19:41:41Z")
> [@Todderbob](#): > > What makes you think that Spock isn’t his first name? I thought it was “Cosmo.” ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/102 "2010-03-25T20:37:25Z")
> [@Jim\_s\_Son](#): > > Isn’t there a question in the “Planet with Spores” episode where Jill Ireland says “You never told me your first name” and he says “You could never pronounce it”? On the other hand, in Journey to Babel, Amanda says she’s getting better at pronouncing her married name, so it is obviously not Spock (nor is Sarek ever called Ambassador Spock). Of course, it’s easy to reconcile those two points (through at least 2 methods) - Option 1) Vulcans have names in the Asian manner - family name first, personal name second, and Spock is being terribly literal in his response, as Spock was frequently wont to do, either ignoring, or missing, the fact that she meant his personal name. Clearly, while Vulcan personal names are not terribly problematic for non-Vulcans, their family names are…they probably include not only phonemes not found in non-Vulcan languages, but complex structures…and are probably archaic, even by Vulcan standards. And Vulcans are probably less amenable to having their family names altered to make them easier for non-Vulcans to say. (Since first contact (or at least first contact with a race they didn’t end up hostile to - I doubt they tried to make it easy for Andorians to pronounce their names, for instance) they’ve probably taken to giving less complicated personal names to their children, or at least names easily shortened into something non-Vulcans can handle.) Option 2) Vulcans don’t have a distinction between personal and family names, and simply use a more pronounceable portion of their names when dealing with Non-Vulcans. In Spock’s case, ‘Spock’ would be a later portion of his name, since his first name is unpronounceable by humans. On Vulcan he could very well be called ‘Tłəarxxœł’. Amanda, in this case, would have taken a Vulcan name upon marriage, but continues to call herself Amanda when dealing with anyone not a Vulcan. And probably leaves it to Sarek to tell other Vulcans what her name is, since she can’t pronounce it well. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/103 "2010-03-25T21:52:23Z")
> [@Tengu](#): > > On the other hand, in Journey to Babel, Amanda says she’s getting better at pronouncing her married name, so it is obviously not Spock (nor is Sarek ever called Ambassador Spock). > > Of course, it’s easy to reconcile those two points (through at least 2 methods) - > > Option 1) Vulcans have names in the Asian manner - family name first, personal name second, and Spock is being terribly literal in his response, as Spock was frequently wont to do, either ignoring, or missing, the fact that she meant his personal name. > > Clearly, while Vulcan personal names are not terribly problematic for non-Vulcans, their family names are…they probably include not only phonemes not found in non-Vulcan languages, but complex structures…and are probably archaic, even by Vulcan standards. And Vulcans are probably less amenable to having their family names altered to make them easier for non-Vulcans to say. (Since first contact (or at least first contact with a race they didn’t end up hostile to - I doubt they tried to make it easy for Andorians to pronounce their names, for instance) they’ve probably taken to giving less complicated personal names to their children, or at least names easily shortened into something non-Vulcans can handle.) > > Option 2) Vulcans don’t have a distinction between personal and family names, and simply use a more pronounceable portion of their names when dealing with Non-Vulcans. > > In Spock’s case, ‘Spock’ would be a later portion of his name, since his first name is unpronounceable by humans. On Vulcan he could very well be called ‘Tłəarxxœł’. > > Amanda, in this case, would have taken a Vulcan name upon marriage, but continues to call herself Amanda when dealing with anyone not a Vulcan. And probably leaves it to Sarek to tell other Vulcans what her name is, since she can’t pronounce it well. I have always thought that Vulcans gave easier names to humans so they could pronounce it. It does make sense that his first name is really a family name, as, otherwise, Spock and Sarek have different family names. Then again, I believe there are societies where that works. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2010, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/104 "2010-03-25T23:27:29Z")
Here’s a question I never got an answer to: what is up with all of the Klingon spoken in the series (TNG and DS9)? In one scene a Klingon speaks an insult in his own language so that the non-Klingons won’t understand what he meant, but another character apparently does know Klingon and this is remarked upon. Why does ANYONE need to learn Klingon? There’s a UNIVERSAL TRANSLATOR in operation which changes any language spoken into that of the person hearing it. Surely all Klingons are speaking their own language but you don’t realise is because it’s being translated? If that’s not the case, why is it ONLY KLINGONS this is an issue for? No other species suddenly regularly lapses into their own language despite the presence of the universal translator. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/105 "2010-03-26T00:03:38Z")
I wonder what ever became of Khan from Space Seed … ? ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/106 "2010-03-26T00:31:58Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I wonder what ever became of Khan from Space Seed … ? I heard he got married, settled down… ---
**Author:** ![wolfman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a8b319/32.png) [@wolfman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfman)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/107 "2010-03-26T00:33:14Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I heard he got married, settled down… Found a nice little island and set up a resort. ---
**Author:** ![Kamino\_Neko](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kamino_neko/32/34_2.png) [@Kamino\_Neko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kamino_Neko)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/108 "2010-03-26T00:37:52Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > I wonder what ever became of Khan from Space Seed … ? Nothing of KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANsequence. ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/109 "2010-03-26T14:28:53Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Thanks for posting that. I can accept that version of Kirk’s story, and consider [del]canceling the contract I put out on[/del] forgiving the guys that wrote _Generations_. Add my thanks for posting that, but for a different reason. Now that I’ve read the synopsis of the Shatner-“written” Kirk books, I have no need to read the books. Ugh.. the worst kind of fan-service namedropping. I didn’t love Kirk’s death scene in Generations, but it’s way better than involving the Borg, DS9, V’Ger, and the Mirror Universe… ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/110 "2010-03-26T14:33:22Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > Add my thanks for posting that, but for a different reason. Now that I’ve read the synopsis of the Shatner-“written” Kirk books, I have no need to read the books. Ugh.. the worst kind of fan-service namedropping. I didn’t love Kirk’s death scene in Generations, but it’s way better than involving the Borg, DS9, V’Ger, and the Mirror Universe… I had much the same thoughts when I first saw the book(s), but, … well, … it works. Really, no fizzbin. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/111 "2010-03-26T16:41:00Z")
> [@gonzoron](#): > > The one thing I wish they’d _stop_ following up on is the Mirror Universe. Fantastic once. Great twice. OK the 3rd time, maybe. But now enough is enough. (and that’s coming from a diehard DS9 fan and an enthusiastic Enterprise fan). What did you think of the novel Dark Mirror? I was almost sorry to see that the Empire got killed off in DS9. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/112 "2010-03-26T17:22:15Z")
Spock is his first name. But like with many meetings-of-cultures, his high and noble family name has become an embarrassment. It is “Adoodledoo”. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/113 "2010-03-26T18:57:06Z")
…snerk… ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/114 "2010-03-27T20:13:21Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > What did you think of the novel Dark Mirror? I was almost sorry to see that the Empire got killed off in DS9. Read it once long ago… I think I liked it at the time, but have only vague memories of it now. The Mirror Universe is a fun idea, it’s just been a few too many times to the well for my taste. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/115 "2010-03-28T00:10:33Z")
Here’s a question: Where DID Admiral Archer’s pet beagle get to? ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/116 "2010-03-28T00:17:10Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Here’s a question: > > Where DID Admiral Archer’s pet beagle get to? The dog was an [allasomorph](http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Allasomorph) and later got ‘jiggy’ with Wesley. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/117 "2010-03-28T01:49:23Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I urge you to read _Q in Law_ by Peter David, one of the funniest ST books I’ve ever read, in which Q meets Amb. Lwaxana Troi, Deanna’s mom. Good stuff. \ Gosh, I’d like to, but I just don’t read ST books… 😉 I would like to think that Guinan and Q are indeed opposite “sides” of some kind of force in the universe. But that one TNG where Guinan is with Sam Clemens etc–that one is weird as hell. Like an acid trip gone bad. I like Shatner’s ST books. I vastly prefer them to [cannot think of author’s name, but he wrote a book about The City on the Edge of Forever where Bones essentially settles down in Virginia somewhere and is happy that his other crew members won’t find him. He marries some Dixie chick–it’s one of the most boring books ever written.], but I will admit that they do require patience at times. ---
**Author:** ![FordTaurusSHO94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f07891/32.png) [@FordTaurusSHO94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FordTaurusSHO94)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/118 "2010-03-28T05:18:50Z")
How did Shatner know how to write books involving current characters and races of the time? In an interview a year or two ago, he told Stewart, Frakes, Nimoy, and Goldberg that he had never even seen an episode of TNG era series. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/119 "2010-03-28T07:39:43Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I like Shatner’s ST books. I vastly prefer them to [cannot think of author’s name, but he wrote a book about The City on the Edge of Forever where Bones essentially settles down in Virginia somewhere and is happy that his other crew members won’t find him. He marries some Dixie chick–it’s one of the most boring books ever written.], but I will admit that they do require patience at times. [Provenance of Shadows](http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Provenance_of_Shadows) is the book you were thinking of, and thus, the "boring author would be David R. George III. Fortunately, he hasn’t written [that much](http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/David_R._George_III). ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2010, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268/120 "2010-03-28T08:03:54Z")
> [@FordTaurusSHO94](#): > > How did Shatner know how to write books involving current characters and races of the time? In an interview a year or two ago, he told Stewart, Frakes, Nimoy, and Goldberg that he had never even seen an episode of TNG era series. Shatner writes an outline but Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens (Trek experts if there ever were any) fill in the blanks. I suspect Shatner’s outline looks like so: CAPTAIN KIRK, the best Starfleet captain in all of history and time, makes love to his wife repeatedly while his enemies scheme against him. Because CAPTAIN KIRK is so AWESOME his enemies cannot abide his AWESOMENESS and must kill him even though he is content to make love to his beautiful, exotic, beautiful, amazing, super-special wife for all of time. His enemies pull some NEFARIOUS SHIT causing CAPTAIN KIRK to put his BOOTS OF AWESOME on and start kicking some Klingon/Romulan/Borg/All other comers ass! Although his enemies are NUMEROUS and POWERFUL and their SHIT is NEFARIOUS, CAPTAIN KIRK is dipped in AWESOME SAUCE and cannot be fooled, tricked, hurt, killed, inconvenienced, lied to, trapped, or fooled again. CAPTAIN KIRK kicks all ass, SAVES THE DAY and THE UNIVERSE and goes back home to be awesome and have lots and lots of awesome hot sex with his wife. CAPTAIN KIRK IS AWESOME THAT IS ALL. Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens then take this, wrap a 24-ish plot around it, sprinkle liberally with characters from all the shows, shake and stir and voila- a Shatner book is… shat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-fans-loose-threads-unanswered-questions/533268.md?page=7)