# Star Trek: Generations Question **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399 "2008-01-05T15:28:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/1 "2008-01-05T15:28:51Z")
My wife and I have one question about this movie. When Kirk and Picard come out of the Nexus to fight Dr. Soron, what’s the rush? If they fail, can’t the just find each other again and try over and over endlessly? I mean, it’s important the succeed, but did they have only one shot? Yes, that’s three questions, but they are all asking the same thing. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/2 "2008-01-05T15:34:18Z")
That is only one of the many massive plot holes in that movie. Picard could come out of the Nexus any time, anywhere. Why not come out when he had Soron in his control, on the Enterprise, and throw him in the brig? So the answer to your question(s) is: bad writing. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/3 "2008-01-05T17:21:11Z")
No - not neccisarily bad writing - Kirk and Picard have no idea if they can get back in to the nexus - so, once they chose thier point of attack, they had to complete it. Choosing that particular point was the only one that ‘they knew of’ - they chose to stop Soron from completing his mission, not starting it. Inside the Nexus they can ‘relive’ any moment, doesn’t mean they can create ‘new’ moments (that don’t exist) However, the getting into (and out of) the Nexus itself seemed problematic - Soron and Guinan were “removed” from the nexus when the ships were being destroyed by it - ships they were presumably in as refugees - why did the captains of those ships decide to get anywhere near the energy ribbon? How did they know anything about the Nexus or what controls it to begin with? I still don’t even remember how Picard got into the nexus to begin with - Kirk’s made sense. (well, as much as it could). ---
**Author:** ![t-mobileguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/65b543/32.png) [@t-mobileguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/t-mobileguy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/4 "2008-01-05T18:03:40Z")
Massive Plot hole. I liked the movie (mostly) but this was one of the problems with a time travel episode. Why not have Kirk Go back to the enterprise B and stop him there? Why didn’t Kirk and Picard just Groundhog Day the whole thing until they could save Soran, Kirk, Picard, the enterprise D and the planet? The whole getting back in the ribbon plot made very little sense, why didn’t Soran take a shuttle and fly near the ribbon and beam himself into the nexus? Why not take a space suit and fly directly in? Hell Spock did it to V’ger in the motion picture. Face it Soran was a mass murder and the Ribbon was his excuse. The devil made me do it of the 24th century. Now there is a theory that everything we have been seeing since the Generations movie has been a lie. Remember the nexus gives you whatever your heart desires. So what did Picard want? He wanted to swoop in and save the world. So that’s what he got. He’s still living in the nexus believing he got out and lived through First contact, the Sona and the Reman clone. In reality the Enterprise D crash landed on the planet and then was destroyed by the ribbon. Everyone dead but Picard. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/5 "2008-01-05T18:05:46Z")
[QUOTE=simster] I still don’t even remember how Picard got into the nexus to begin with - Kirk’s made sense. (well, as much as it could). [/quote] I’ll answer this first: Picard got in the same way Soron did (before Picard went back and stopped him); Soron deflected the Nexus by blowing up the sun, which sucked up both of them. > [@](#): > > No - not neccisarily bad writing - > > Kirk and Picard have no idea if they can get back in to the nexus - so, once they chose thier point of attack, they had to complete it. Except that “failure” means that Soron completes his objective, which will necessarily end up with the Nexus being redirected to their position, therefore sucking them back in. > [@](#): > > Choosing that particular point was the only one that ‘they knew of’ - they chose to stop Soron from completing his mission, not starting it. > > Inside the Nexus they can ‘relive’ any moment, doesn’t mean they can create ‘new’ moments (that don’t exist) There wouldn’t be any “new” moments created. Guinan clearly states that Picard can exit anytime, anywhere; even if he only has one shot at it, it makes far more sense to put himself in a situation where he is in total control, rather than one where he’s going to have to fight like hell to win. > [@](#): > > However, the getting into (and out of) the Nexus itself seemed problematic - Soron and Guinan were “removed” from the nexus when the ships were being destroyed by it - ships they were presumably in as refugees - why did the captains of those ships decide to get anywhere near the energy ribbon? How did they know anything about the Nexus or what controls it to begin with? I don’t think the original refugee ship (with Soron and Guinan) flew in on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/6 "2008-01-05T20:40:43Z")
My wife also just asked, “Where is the original Picard?” When they return to the past to stop Dr. Soron, shouldn’t there be two Picards? One came out of the Nexus and one that was about to go into it. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/7 "2008-01-05T20:48:14Z")
[QUOTE=Mahaloth] My wife also just asked, “Where is the original Picard?” When they return to the past to stop Dr. Soron, shouldn’t there be two Picards? One came out of the Nexus and one that was about to go into it. [/QUOTE] Well, see, the Nexus is, like, magic, or something. This is not one of my favorite _Trek_ movies. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/8 "2008-01-05T21:01:20Z")
You also have to think that if they had all been drawn into the Nexus, then Soron could also have chosen his moment to re-emerge and ensure that Kirk and Picard never enter the Nexus. Then he could have gone back in. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/9 "2008-01-05T22:31:01Z")
This movie made perfect sense to me until I read this thread. Now I am confused. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/10 "2008-01-05T23:17:17Z")
That’s not even my favourite plot hole in the movie. Consider this. On the holodeck they simulate an old sailing ship. Worf and Crusher fall into the water, some way below deck level. Then Picard opens a door at deck level, and steps out into the Enterprise corridor… … which means that Worf and Crusher are under the holodeck floor, right? ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/11 "2008-01-05T23:40:30Z")
I never understood the mechanism for leaving the Nexus. Did you just think of the time and place you’d like to end up then ride off to it on horseback? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/12 "2008-01-06T00:08:56Z")
[QUOTE=randwill] I never understood the mechanism for leaving the Nexus. [/QUOTE] I always would just tip my stylist, collect my jacket, and leave. No problem. ---
**Author:** ![randwill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a3d4f5/32.png) [@randwill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/randwill)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/13 "2008-01-06T00:34:06Z")
[QUOTE=Peter Morris] That’s not even my favourite plot hole in the movie. Consider this. On the holodeck they simulate an old sailing ship. Worf and Crusher fall into the water, some way below deck level. Then Picard opens a door at deck level, and steps out into the Enterprise corridor… … which means that Worf and Crusher are under the holodeck floor, right? [/QUOTE] The only thing more magical than the Nexus was the holodeck. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/14 "2008-01-06T00:40:59Z")
Don’t forget that they said that even if you leave the Nexus, a part of you still remains. So if Soron _had_ made it back inside, doesn’t that mean there were _two_ of them running around in there? It’d make the ol’ in an’ out with the wife a bit awkward. Then there’s the little matter of what Scotty said in _Relics_ after finding out that he’d been rescued by the _Enterprise_, “I guess Kirk must have pulled the old girl out of mothballs.” If you’ll recall, Scotty was _there_ on the _Enterprise_ when Jimmie T. got sucked into the Nexus and was presumed dead. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/15 "2008-01-06T01:12:05Z")
Personally, I think the whole ridiculous exercise was just an excuse to trash the _Enterprise_-D, because while those brightly-lit sets look okay on television, on film they’re cheesy, requiring replacement with the dark, menacing _Enterprise_-E, with hallways so dim everyone must get issued a flashlight with their uniform. Lousy movie, down there with _Final Frontier_, _Insurrection_ and _Nemesis_. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/16 "2008-01-06T02:16:25Z")
Still, it was worth it for the tricorder ventriloquism, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/17 "2008-01-06T19:15:34Z")
[QUOTE=Bryan Ekers] Lousy movie, down there with _Final Frontier_, _Insurrection_ and _Nemesis_. [/QUOTE] Hey, Insurrection is nothing close to as bad as Generations, Final Frontier, and Nemesis. It’s just a really average episode. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/18 "2008-01-06T19:20:37Z")
Well, it’s certainly not cringe-makingly full of logical flaws and bad lines. But it is send-me -to-sleep boring. That qualifies it as bad in my book. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/19 "2008-01-06T19:41:32Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] Don’t forget that they said that even if you leave the Nexus, a part of you still remains. So if Soron _had_ made it back inside, doesn’t that mean there were _two_ of them running around in there? It’d make the ol’ in an’ out with the wife a bit awkward. Then there’s the little matter of what Scotty said in _Relics_ after finding out that he’d been rescued by the _Enterprise_, “I guess Kirk must have pulled the old girl out of mothballs.” If you’ll recall, Scotty was _there_ on the _Enterprise_ when Jimmie T. got sucked into the Nexus and was presumed dead. [/QUOTE] Yes, but we’re talking about JAMES T. KIRK being presumed dead. Scotty probably had a lot of confidence that Kirk found some ridiculous way to cheat apparent death, since he was, after all, Kirk. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2008, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399/20 "2008-01-06T20:07:55Z")
Or maybe it was simply bad writing, the TV episode having been made some time before the movie. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/star-trek-generations-question/432399.md?page=2)